Ok new problem with 2010 traverse....power steering has been going for a time now it's gone...4 yrs + 87000 + miles = no warranty ...so I'll be tackling this job myself.I can tell this is a job I only want to do once so I need to know the best replacement rack out there?I looked on gmparts direct and they say my rack part # 20964166 has been replaced with part # 22902261 (2013-2014 traverse)...are these I assume interchangeable?Are these racks improved over the 2010?Or should I get a replacement from cardone or other?Thank you for your time
RACK & PINION
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No, please purchase from GM. As a former dealership mechanic and now as a fleet maintenance manager I believe in using OEM replacement parts.
I do ask a favor since you are tackling this job. Please post photos and draft a write up of the tricks and tips you learned to assist everyone in the community. Thanks.
I do ask a favor since you are tackling this job. Please post photos and draft a write up of the tricks and tips you learned to assist everyone in the community. Thanks.
What timing.....I was just coming to post about this very problem. I was quoted $1,900 (roughly 10% of purchase price on our used '10 LT Traverse) to replace the steering gear, pump, and lines (plus alignment and shop fees) at the dealership. I see RockAuto has two racks (both ACDelco) PN#20964166 and PN#22902260. Can someone confirm the right number?
I'm Not 100% why they want to replace essentially the entire system, but that is what they quoted. A quick check on RockAuto puts the gear at $342 (1 left at $253), and the pump at $125. Hoses are another $50-$60 bucks. All ACDelco parts. That's $527 in parts. Lets assume a $75 alignment as well. That's $602 in hard costs. So $1,300 in labor to replace those parts. Is there something I'm missing from the system that makes it worth $1,300 for them to change it out instead of me.
Here are the symptoms that prompted the diagnosis:
At low speed when transitioning from off throttle to on throttle, assist is completely lost. Almost as if it is getting pressure to BOTH sides. The wheel becomes virtually impossible to turn. So for instance, when pulling out of a driveway onto a busy road, as you sit there idling waiting for your chance to pull out the steering works great. Then as you press the gas pedal and turn the wheel the wheel "locks" in position, and take a small act of god to complete the turn (I have to use both hands and make a serious effort to complete the turn, Shelly has to drive in the other lane until the assist comes back). Once moving the assist comes right back with no problems. When idling the assist is perfect, when under light throttle and making a turn it's perfect. For instance, driving through a parking lot, up and down the isles, no problem, pull into a parking spot no problem, plenty of assist, as soon as you transition from off throttle to on throttle, it locks. The case is exceptionally bad when reversing uphill, as you are on/off the throttle as you move the vehicle into the desired position, the assist locks and unlocks the wheel multiple times.
SO.....Anyone have any experience with this steering issues? It sure seems to me like the lines and pump have to be working at least at some level to keep assist at idle, and at speed. Should I replace the rack first, then the pump, then the lines? Other way around? Lines first, then pump, then rack? I've read on other forums of just the rack getting replaced, and that solving the problem.
I'll be sure to have someone on hand with a camera when I do the repairs to get a write-up for it done, as I can't seem to find one anywhere else.
I'm Not 100% why they want to replace essentially the entire system, but that is what they quoted. A quick check on RockAuto puts the gear at $342 (1 left at $253), and the pump at $125. Hoses are another $50-$60 bucks. All ACDelco parts. That's $527 in parts. Lets assume a $75 alignment as well. That's $602 in hard costs. So $1,300 in labor to replace those parts. Is there something I'm missing from the system that makes it worth $1,300 for them to change it out instead of me.
Here are the symptoms that prompted the diagnosis:
At low speed when transitioning from off throttle to on throttle, assist is completely lost. Almost as if it is getting pressure to BOTH sides. The wheel becomes virtually impossible to turn. So for instance, when pulling out of a driveway onto a busy road, as you sit there idling waiting for your chance to pull out the steering works great. Then as you press the gas pedal and turn the wheel the wheel "locks" in position, and take a small act of god to complete the turn (I have to use both hands and make a serious effort to complete the turn, Shelly has to drive in the other lane until the assist comes back). Once moving the assist comes right back with no problems. When idling the assist is perfect, when under light throttle and making a turn it's perfect. For instance, driving through a parking lot, up and down the isles, no problem, pull into a parking spot no problem, plenty of assist, as soon as you transition from off throttle to on throttle, it locks. The case is exceptionally bad when reversing uphill, as you are on/off the throttle as you move the vehicle into the desired position, the assist locks and unlocks the wheel multiple times.
SO.....Anyone have any experience with this steering issues? It sure seems to me like the lines and pump have to be working at least at some level to keep assist at idle, and at speed. Should I replace the rack first, then the pump, then the lines? Other way around? Lines first, then pump, then rack? I've read on other forums of just the rack getting replaced, and that solving the problem.
I'll be sure to have someone on hand with a camera when I do the repairs to get a write-up for it done, as I can't seem to find one anywhere else.
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Here's what I pulled from another forum discussion - a GM tech commented on the steering issues:
20 year gm technician here, specifically suspension/steering/brakes. made an account just to reply to this thread. i know some of these posts are quite old, but still relevant.
multiple steering issues on traverse, acadia, & enclave models. the "zipper type" noise heard when turning the steering wheel (sometimes quite faint, some are louder, seems to get worse as vehicle is driven longer) is caused by a dry seal at the steering gear input shaft. this is merely an annoyance and presents no safety issue or operational malfunctions. owners of most vehicles that are out of warranty do not repair this.
a LOT of the steering gears leak. about 50% of the ones that do leak probably don't leak bad enough to replace.
the loud/hard clunking noise heard on model years 2010 & prior is due to steering gear mount bushings. the replacement bushings are made of an updated compound. service procedure requires r&r of steering rack/pinion to replace. as bad as the noise can sound, it does not present any safety/operational issues in my opinion.
the intermittent hard steering is an internal steering pump fault probably 95% of the time. the condition can be intermittent, seems to be worse after reaching operating temps/hot. the problem can be duplicated by sitting still & revving the engine 2-3K rpm's while turning the steering wheel. the actual cause is a flow control valve internal to the pump. the valve gets worn on 1 side & bypasses fluid at higher pressures, resulting in no assist.
updated service procedures require flushing & refilling p/s system with dexron vi trans fluid.
ANY time i have had the hydraulic circuit of the p/s system opened, the air in the system is EXTREMELY hard to bleed out. it's a long process & at best will still have some air in it that may take 1000 miles or so to completely remove itself. this can cause some pump whine at times, but mostly (in my experience) causes the steering to shudder or vibrate when making parking lot type maneuvers at low engine rpm's, especially after warmed. this presents no operational/safety issues in my opinion. again....VERY DIFFICULT to correct without driving several hundred miles.
i have never had any failures of the variable assist portion of the power steering.
in summary:
- zipper noise.....no biggie
- rack/pinion leak.....depends on severity
- intermittent no assist....fix it. it will only get worse
- clunking....no biggie, depends on annoyance
- shudder/vibration after repairs....normal, keep driving it a while
hope all of this helps.
Following the tech's advice, it sounds like you'll need a new PS pump to address the loss of steering. I would also recommend removing the old PS fluid completely, installing a new pinion (gear) housing in your steering rack, and then installing Dexron VI, fully bleeding the system in the process. PI0029H documents the draining, flushing and fill procedures for the Dexron VI replacement, and also describes how to replace the pinion housing (separate P/N that can be R&R'd on your existing steering rack). Its replacement is needed with the new fluid because the old (existing) seal will swell if exposed to the new fluid. If you'd like a copy of PI0029H, PM me with your e-mail address, and I'll send you a copy.
20 year gm technician here, specifically suspension/steering/brakes. made an account just to reply to this thread. i know some of these posts are quite old, but still relevant.
multiple steering issues on traverse, acadia, & enclave models. the "zipper type" noise heard when turning the steering wheel (sometimes quite faint, some are louder, seems to get worse as vehicle is driven longer) is caused by a dry seal at the steering gear input shaft. this is merely an annoyance and presents no safety issue or operational malfunctions. owners of most vehicles that are out of warranty do not repair this.
a LOT of the steering gears leak. about 50% of the ones that do leak probably don't leak bad enough to replace.
the loud/hard clunking noise heard on model years 2010 & prior is due to steering gear mount bushings. the replacement bushings are made of an updated compound. service procedure requires r&r of steering rack/pinion to replace. as bad as the noise can sound, it does not present any safety/operational issues in my opinion.
the intermittent hard steering is an internal steering pump fault probably 95% of the time. the condition can be intermittent, seems to be worse after reaching operating temps/hot. the problem can be duplicated by sitting still & revving the engine 2-3K rpm's while turning the steering wheel. the actual cause is a flow control valve internal to the pump. the valve gets worn on 1 side & bypasses fluid at higher pressures, resulting in no assist.
updated service procedures require flushing & refilling p/s system with dexron vi trans fluid.
ANY time i have had the hydraulic circuit of the p/s system opened, the air in the system is EXTREMELY hard to bleed out. it's a long process & at best will still have some air in it that may take 1000 miles or so to completely remove itself. this can cause some pump whine at times, but mostly (in my experience) causes the steering to shudder or vibrate when making parking lot type maneuvers at low engine rpm's, especially after warmed. this presents no operational/safety issues in my opinion. again....VERY DIFFICULT to correct without driving several hundred miles.
i have never had any failures of the variable assist portion of the power steering.
in summary:
- zipper noise.....no biggie
- rack/pinion leak.....depends on severity
- intermittent no assist....fix it. it will only get worse
- clunking....no biggie, depends on annoyance
- shudder/vibration after repairs....normal, keep driving it a while
hope all of this helps.
Following the tech's advice, it sounds like you'll need a new PS pump to address the loss of steering. I would also recommend removing the old PS fluid completely, installing a new pinion (gear) housing in your steering rack, and then installing Dexron VI, fully bleeding the system in the process. PI0029H documents the draining, flushing and fill procedures for the Dexron VI replacement, and also describes how to replace the pinion housing (separate P/N that can be R&R'd on your existing steering rack). Its replacement is needed with the new fluid because the old (existing) seal will swell if exposed to the new fluid. If you'd like a copy of PI0029H, PM me with your e-mail address, and I'll send you a copy.
Thank you so much for the reply! That is some very useful information I hadn't seen in any of my searching.
I'll post the part numbers they quoted me when I get home this afternoon. It sure sounds like I need to replace the pump to address the symptom at hand.
I'll post the part numbers they quoted me when I get home this afternoon. It sure sounds like I need to replace the pump to address the symptom at hand.
I will use gm parts but need to know if 22902261 will fit my truck as it is the 2013 Traverse part #....as for photos I have no way or know how to do that...as a matter of fact that is what I'm on here looking for myselfBoatwrench said:
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Here's your answer... oh, and the part is a reasonable $208.79.db13 said:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=3866835
More Information for ACDELCO 22902261
GM Original Equipment
ACDelco Remanufactured Rack and Pinion Gears:
Gears are remanufactured using 100% new, premium-grade seals and new bellows, boots and mounting bushings to help provide better durability and reliability
Proprietary sleeves are bonded and staked in place, locking it for safety
Proprietary micro-finish sleeving of valve housing
Shafts are centerless polished to OE specifications
Every shaft is centerless polished
Shafts are checked for straightness to .005" TIR
Every valve is "power flushed"
New O.E. Saginaw Teflon Rings
Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 20920149, 20964166
First time user here. Last week I got a letter from GM saying that some 2011 Traverse vehicles may develop a power steering pump wear condition that can cause an intermittent drop of power steering hydraulic pressure and loss or reduced steering assist. They will fix this for free up to 150K miles. That was happening to mine and it is being fixed today. I got a call from service a few minutes ago and they say my rack & pinion leaking a bit and they will fix it for $1000! Isn't that problem caused by the faulty steering pressure over the last 45K miles? Did anyone else get this notice and have to pay for a new rack & pinion?
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Let us know how everything turns out with your service visit, dhudock. We understand you're a bit frustrated given the letter you received, but if there's anything we can further address please feel free to PM us your VIN and contact information.dhudock said:
Amber N.
Chevrolet Customer Care
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No, the steering rack leak is independent of the internal valve wear of the PS Pump, which is the subject of GM's Special Notice (Pump Only).dhudock said:
GM made a change to Dexron VI as the factory-fill PS fluid from MY2012 and on. This change was made to take advantage of the better viscosity properties of Dexron VI, which is thought to prolong the life of the wetted parts of the power steering system (pump, rack, etc.). If the steering rack is replaced, the dealer should be draining, flushing and refilling the system with Dexron VI.
Eh, if I were him I would argue that point. If the pump is going out and not regulating properly or surging, it could supply high fluid pressure to the rack and cause the seals to leak. It's worth protesting to the dealer.XRDreamliner said:
As I've mentioned in a few threads, when my pump let go it took out the rack at the same time. Submitted for reimbursement last week of the full repair which included both, we'll see what GM decides to cover.
I spoke to the service manager today and I went through the logic that my bad pump may have damaged the seals in the R&P but he told me that GM is not covering that under the pump problem. He then told me the R&P leak may be gone so I should not worry anymore. I told him I would be shocked that the problem they wanted to fix for over $1000 last week is gone by itself. My car is driving great so they either tried to jam me for over 1K for unneeded work or they now see that they will be responsible for the fix and are trying to get out of it.
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I just had to get the same thing fixed on my 2010 Traverse with 53,000 Miles. Luckily the dealer gave me a 10% discount so it only cost me $1,400. I brought it in because my driveway was full of nice black spots from the driveshaft leaking which luckily was under the powertrain warranty. While there they noticed a leak coming from the power steering which was leaking into the tie rod boot. Looks like they used the following parts:
22902261 Gear 6.508 $415
3x 88862165 ATF-DRUM L $7.35
And of course 8 hrs of labor at $118/hr.
If you ask me the Chevy Traverse is a giant lemon. My car is gently driven and no way this stuff should be crapping out. Besides all the other work and recalls I have power windows that work sometimes, radio that switches to AUX all by itself. The whole car is just falling a part even though I work from home and the car sits in my driveway most of the day. The whole power steering stuff should be covered under recall. After the power steering fix I have that nice whining sound due to the air in the lines to boot!!!
22902261 Gear 6.508 $415
3x 88862165 ATF-DRUM L $7.35
And of course 8 hrs of labor at $118/hr.
If you ask me the Chevy Traverse is a giant lemon. My car is gently driven and no way this stuff should be crapping out. Besides all the other work and recalls I have power windows that work sometimes, radio that switches to AUX all by itself. The whole car is just falling a part even though I work from home and the car sits in my driveway most of the day. The whole power steering stuff should be covered under recall. After the power steering fix I have that nice whining sound due to the air in the lines to boot!!!
OK!!!!!!Last November (2014) I got a letter from gm saying my power steering pump was under the extended warranty and they would replace it. I took it to the dealer (Bortz Chevrolet in Waynesburg PA [thumbs up]) and they replaced it plus fixed 3 other recalls (seat belt,air bag,and water pump) that I knew nothing about....drives like a new one thanks Bortz.
Our 2011 Traverse is in the shop for 2 days now. Late last summer we discovered issues with the power steering.... In January I finally gave up on trying to resolve what the problem was (BIL is a mechanic and offered 2 suggestions) and paid a auto shop to diagnose the problem. They gave me paperwork on 'Special Coverage Adjustment' 14329A. So I took it into the dealership (was planning to take it on a road trip soon). They replaced the Pump, took it for a test drive AND then called me back that the Power Steering Rack and Pinion assembly also need to be replaced at a cost between 1200-1500 as that is not covered on the SCA (just the pump). I am totally disgusted because it ONLY has 38,000 miles on it!! Basically a brand new vehicle!!! I contacted the shop that gave me the writeup and asked their opinion and then I also contacted GM and they filed a case on it. Dealership called back and will have to wait at least a day to get an answer from GM. I already know the answer after reading SO MANY complaints for the same problem (at arfc.org/complaints)..... What I do not understand is HOW on earth is this NOT a recall, there is 100's, if not 1000's of complaints on it!!!!
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Anybody know if this only the 2011? I have the same issue with my 2013 ls. Is the pump covered?
by 2013, the PS has converted over to Dexron VI trans fluid- as power steering fluid.
There was an issue with regular PS fluid doing something to some rubber seals.
Any pre 2011 and earlier that had service done to the pump etc, were converted over to Dexron as the PS fluid. Had to be purged correctly so that the new parts were not 'contaminated' by the regular PS fluid.
Theres posts on this conversion.
So id say that by 2013 issues were corrected
There was an issue with regular PS fluid doing something to some rubber seals.
Any pre 2011 and earlier that had service done to the pump etc, were converted over to Dexron as the PS fluid. Had to be purged correctly so that the new parts were not 'contaminated' by the regular PS fluid.
Theres posts on this conversion.
So id say that by 2013 issues were corrected
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