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I feel ill if I take a 5 year loan, I know a guy who just bought a pickup on an 8 year loan. I find it criminal but the creditors allow it so I guess I'm in the minority.
Yeah the rational is cars are lasting longer so they figure it's a safe loan. They also prey on the those buyers to come back and flip the debt into another car repeatedly and with 96 month loans it's possible. Reminds of the the cash for clunkers deal that saved the auto industry by removing faulty cars with potential recall off the road into newer cars.

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The only way a whole lot of folks can afford a $50,000 new pickup is either a really long loan and /or a long lease followed by a shorter loan. Car have to last longer just to give someone a chance to keep them Imagine if they lasted like they did in the 50's and 60's where a car with 100,000 miles was done. My daughters fiancé is paying $700 per month for a BIG RAM Pickup and has several years to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Haven't had a car payment in over 40 years...paid cash............ house payment in 30 years. Hate paying interest.

Not against loans...if U can get a really good deal with 0 %...IE: use their money.
 

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Haven't had a car payment in over 40 years...paid cash............ house payment in 30 years. Hate paying interest.

Not against loans...if U can get a really good deal with 0 %...IE: use their money.
I'm with you. No house payment in 27 yrs, only car payment in last 25 years was in 2009 when they offered me a 3% loan so I put the cash into a 5% CD (those were the days!) and made 2%. Still have that car; it's 12 yrs old now.

The problem is that most people buying new cars are "keeping up with the Jone's," buying more car than they can really afford and trading it in after 3-4 yrs, because they need to be seen in a newer one.

I know I'll get bashed for saying this.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
When I grew up there were no credit cards. One took out a loan from the bank, and that wasn't easy.

My first real job was in 1956, for the Electric Futility Co., as a meter reader, @ $185...........Per Month. $90 on the 1st. & 15th. Best job ever had, went down hill from there.

Last job was for Devon Energy Co., contract land agent, @ $ 13.5K/month.

Point is, credit has been way to easy for a long,long,long, time. Most just want to know how much a month.....thats all.
 

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I'm with you. No house payment in 27 yrs, only car payment in last 25 years was in 2009 when they offered me a 3% loan so I put the cash into a 5% CD (those were the days!) and made 2%. Still have that car; it's 12 yrs old now.

The problem is that most people buying new cars are "keeping up with the Jone's," buying more car than they can really afford and trading it in after 3-4 yrs, because they need to be seen in a newer one.

I know I'll get bashed for saying this.
No bashing here I agree with your method. I have over 2 dozen active cards in use only when they offer a $$$ benefit to me.
When I grew up there were no credit cards. One took out a loan from the bank, and that wasn't easy.

My first real job was in 1956, for the Electric Futility Co., as a meter reader, @ $185...........Per Month. $90 on the 1st. & 15th. Best job ever had, went down hill from there.

Last job was for Devon Energy Co., contract land agent, @ $ 13.5K/month.

Point is, credit has been way to easy for a long,long,long, time. Most just want to know how much a month.....thats all.
Wow except for the years this story sounds like me.

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Haven't had a car payment in over 40 years...paid cash............ house payment in 30 years. Hate paying interest.

Not against loans...if U can get a really good deal with 0 %...IE: use their money.
Of the 4 cars I've taken loans on I've had 0% on 2, 1.9% on 1 and 3.5% on the Traverse (used car rates). There have been times where I left

I'm with you. No house payment in 27 yrs, only car payment in last 25 years was in 2009 when they offered me a 3% loan so I put the cash into a 5% CD (those were the days!) and made 2%. Still have that car; it's 12 yrs old now.

The problem is that most people buying new cars are "keeping up with the Jone's," buying more car than they can really afford and trading it in after 3-4 yrs, because they need to be seen in a newer one.

I know I'll get bashed for saying this.
It is hard keeping up with the Jones... It amazes me how many families of elementary aged kids are rolling in new Suburbans and Seqouias and what-not. We bought a 3 year old Pilot with 36k outright and took small payments on a 5 year old Traverse with 85k, I can't imagine spending more. I would LOVE to have a Yukon XL or something like that but I can't stomach spending $55 or $60k on a base model, INSANE.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Noticed U have a 15 Pilot. Overall, how does the Pilot compare to the Travers, mileage, handling, blind spots,etc.?

Have been looking at them & the Highlander.
 

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Noticed U have a 15 Pilot. Overall, how does the Pilot compare to the Travers, mileage, handling, blind spots,etc.?

Have been looking at them & the Highlander.
I view the Highlander as a different class with the CX-9, Sorrento, etc. that have 3rd rows that can't handle adults. I'm in the minority, but I do not cross shop those vehicles with adult friendly 3 row vehicles.

The '15 Pilot is the last year for the 2nd gen (boxy style) while the current 3rd gen has a more "minivan" style like the 1st gen Traverse. The Traverse is bigger and generally more comfortable in the seats and suspension tuning. The Traverse has an extra gear, DI and quite a bit more HP and TQ and IMO it never feels wanting for satisfactory power where the Pilot's 250 HP/TQ and 5 speeds can make it feel lethargic at times. I grew up on an Exscursion so nothing has bad blind spots to me, my wife has never complained or hit anything in 3 years. Your mileage may vary though. Mileage is comparable between the models, 15 around town and low 20s on the highway. The Pilot has a superior AWD system on paper but the Traverse has performed very well for me in the snow.

The Pilot is clearly superior in one area: switchgear. Every switch has very little slop and very reassuring clicks. The 1st gen Traverse has the GMT900 series switchgear and it's all loose and wobbly with poor engagement. I don't notice it until I drive the Pilot, but it always makes me go "dang that feels good". Give it a second area in storage, that thing has storage cubbies EVERYWHERE.

The Traverse is clearly superior in comfort. They are within a couple tenths in width but the Pilot gives you a 12" wide console vs. 5 or 6" in the Traverse. Well the extra width goes into the seats and that is huge for me being 6'3" and 300+ lbs. I can do 3-5 hour trips in the Pilot but I am happy to get out, the Traverse I can drive all day with very little complaints.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Oldest son is 6' 3" @ 298+ #s and has a 19 Highlander, gets 28,29 mpg.highway. He's 62 and way outta the kid bidness, so the 3rd. seat is not an issue.

We've had the 15 Traverse for about 2 1/2 years and the 3rd. seat has been laying flat almost all the time for extra storage which we really like. 19.87 mpg is the most ever got and thats using 93 octane, which am on the 4th. tank.

You mentioned an Excursion, does Ford still make that tank? And, how did(does) it perform?
 

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Oldest son is 6' 3" @ 298+ #s and has a 19 Highlander, gets 28,29 mpg.highway. He's 62 and way outta the kid bidness, so the 3rd. seat is not an issue.

We've had the 15 Traverse for about 2 1/2 years and the 3rd. seat has been laying flat almost all the time for extra storage which we really like. 19.87 mpg is the most ever got and thats using 93 octane, which am on the 4th. tank.

You mentioned an Excursion, does Ford still make that tank? And, how did(does) it perform?
Yea the new Pilot and Traverse are getting up to the mid-high 20's for mileage as well... it's amazing what they've been able to coax out of such large and heavy vehicles. Unfortunately we are a generation behind in both of our vehicles.

If money were no object and I could find one clean enough I'd have an Excursion V10 sitting in my driveway. I LOVED driving that thing and it's the only vehicle my dad has talked about regretting getting rid of it. He had a V10 Limited 4WD. The V10 was a torque monster and it had such a cool engine note. You could buy a 4th row for them and the 3rd and 4th rows were larger than the 2nd row on most vehicles. It was based on the Super Duties so it had excellent payload and towing ratings. It really didn't beat you up much and with the upgraded shocks and sway bars it handled better than you'd think. Once I got the MPG meter to show 20 MPG while coasting downhill, it was more like 9-12 on average, but my dad's company paid for gas so he didn't care.

They don't make them anymore but there are a couple companies that make them on newer Super Duties since everything up to 3 or 4 years ago was built on the same frame and cab as the old Excursion. They'd take the body off of a wrecked Excursion and put it in place of the cab on a F250 crew cab short bed and there ya go.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Meanwhile back to The Offer;

Talked to a friend, retired union thug from GM Arlington Tx., he said the letter was a "Bait & Switch" offer. Seems that GM has a "Black Book" updated weekly from prices at the auction that only the dealers have. It's different from Kelly Blue Book & NADA. If I take the Traverse in, good ole Chris will look at it, take out the "Black Book" and make an another offer based on the purchase of a new vehicle.

My friend said to take the Traverse in and tell them to write me a check on the letter offer and its theirs, and see what they say. The offer letter stated that the dealership would buy it outright for $12,625, no "strings" attached.

The Offer Letter is 1 page; the back side is blank except this at the bottom. There is no "small" print on the front page.

The upside down price at the bottom is the "Current Market Value" on the front page.
scan0024.jpg
 

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Did not know they had a V10. Remember only seeing the diesels.
Yup, the 5.4 V8 and 6.8 V10 are all based off of Ford's modular architecture and both gassers were available on the Excursion. I've driven a 5.4 Excursion, it was a dog. The 7.3 and 6.0 diesels were both available, the 7.3 being legendary and the 6.0 being known to have expensive failures tells you which diesel to look for.

The V10 is actually just now dying with the 7.3 Godzilla gasser being introduced. It was still used in commercial van and truck chassis, medium duty trucks, motorhomes, etc.

Meanwhile back to The Offer;

Talked to a friend, retired union thug from GM Arlington Tx., he said the letter was a "Bait & Switch" offer. Seems that GM has a "Black Book" updated weekly from prices at the auction that only the dealers have. It's different from Kelly Blue Book & NADA. If I take the Traverse in, good ole Chris will look at it, take out the "Black Book" and make an another offer based on the purchase of a new vehicle.

My friend said to take the Traverse in and tell them to write me a check on the letter offer and its theirs, and see what they say. The offer letter stated that the dealership would buy it outright for $12,625, no "strings" attached.

The Offer Letter is 1 page; the back side is blank except this at the bottom. There is no "small" print on the front page.

The upside down price at the bottom is the "Current Market Value" on the front page.
View attachment 9888
Put the screws to them, make them do it!
 

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Don't waste anymore of life's precious time on a bait and switch advertising. No dealer will buy your car for more than current live auction price. You don't have a contract or signed agreement and an advertisement is not legally binding as it allows for typos and availability of offfer at time of presentation to the dealer. If you really want to know what it's worth at auction try vroom.

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Good luck with the offer and if it pans out let me know so I can sell them mines as well.

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Discussion Starter #38
I8H;

Life Precious moments;

Book of James; chapter4 ;part of verse 14; "For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away".
 
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