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NEW Info for Timing Chain Issue's

99K views 59 replies 29 participants last post by  allanferrio 
#1 ·
So some background before I start...My grandfather was a Service Manager for a GM Dealership for roughly 40 years and he still goes back from time to time to ask about things. I sent him on a mission to find out what the Techs, Service Manager think since they tell him the "Truth" vs. what they would tell a common everyday customer like most of us....here is what he came back to me with....

He says: The techs and the Service mananager are seeing people waiting way to long to change thier oil.....in this case the way the engine is designed is with small holes for oil to get to the timing chain location....the tensioner is what wears out first with the very used oil which will cause the premature wear. He also said that there is a whole lot of people that have 2009's that have been changing thier oil at closer intervals (3000-4000 mi. like me) that are not having this issue. So the verdict from his service manager and techs, was CHANGE YOUR OIL MORE OFTEN, since it will be BY FAR the cheapest thing you can put in your car VS. $2000+ for a timing chain repair.

He also asked why the TSB for older and not newer. The Service Mananger told him that 2010's have the new programing for the ECM. Service Manager also told him there may be a few of the early manufactured 2010's with the old program in there. GM was waiting for a certain number of fails before reacting to the problem/ they were finding the best way to go about fixing this with out causing customers loss of vehicles for multiple days for a Timing Chain Recall. 45 mins for reprogram VS. 3-4 days for timing chain repair.

I know this is just what an old man told me but with his history of working for GM for 40 + years I have a tendency to sway his way on matters like this. Hope this helps and of course I can elaborate more if wanted. This is the Cliff Notes version...
 
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#28 ·
@09Enclave, I would first ask What type of Oil was used at the interchange? and second what type of filter....but after reading most of the posts from the people who have had the timing chain fail they were waiting till the "Change Engine Oil" Message was displayed on the dash before changing the oil. I have almost 37K miles on mine now and it runs just as good as the day I bought it...Mainly because i use a good quality SYNTHETIC 5W-30 oil that I still change at 3000-4000 Mi intervals.

I think someone said it in another thread but How can you expect to pay $35,000+++ for a car and then get mad about having to take care of it by something simple like Oil Changes regularly.

Sorry but IMHO OIL is the cheapest protection you can buy for your car so why not spend an extra $3 or $4 bucks for a quart to get something that is proven and will last.
 
#29 ·
Paying a few extra $ for very good oil is well worth it .... ;)

Also paying $4-6 more for a better oil filter done to 15-20 mirons with a syntheic material well also help keep the oil in good condition. :thumb:
 
#30 ·
2LT AWD said:
Paying a few extra $ for very good oil is well worth it .... ;)

Also paying $4-6 more for a better oil filter done to 15-20 mirons with a syntheic material well also help keep the oil in good condition. :thumb:
+1 Totally Agreed.... Better Product equals better outcome..... Better Living Through Chemistry
:beer: :cheers:
 
#32 ·
copperbeech said:
As I have said before (ie too often :-[) such a program i.e. changing oil much more frequently than has been recommended by GM is just a stop gap measure. Specifically I am convinced that timing chains for the 2011 (probably for the 2010s) are physically different chains (materials/design) than we see for the 2009 DI engines. And *if* this is true I might want my 09 chains to fail sooner rather than later (i.e. prior to the expiration of the powertrain warranty) thereby getting the new and improved chains on their dime.

:angryfire:I have a 2010 Traverse, build date 10/09. It is in the dealers possesion now, 1 Mar 2011, for second time the CEL has turned on and DTC is P0300. Not sure how long it will be down, but one more strike and the lemon law gets invoked, time will tell. :angryfire:
 
#35 ·
2LT AWD said:
Why don't we use a lighter oil that allows for quicker flow during start up , like a 0W30 oil. By doing this the oil will get to those smaller and farther oil holes faster and quicker helping to reduce premature wearing of the timing chain and other components . It will cost a few dollars more/quart to use but it will help along with a very good oil filter.

I agree ,regular oil changes are a necessity to help prevent those small oil hole from blocking up . :thumb:
Most American made engines don't have the tight tolerences to use lower weight oils. You could use a 0W oil
instead of a 5W though.
 
#36 ·
copperhead13 said:
Most American made engines don't have the tight tolerences to use lower weight oils.
It is basically only GM that doesnt specify a 20 weight for any of its recent engines ie many Ford and Chrysler engines use 5W20.

copperhead13 said:
You could use a 0W oil
instead of a 5W though.
I agree in that a 0W30 does everything a 5W30 can do and more. However also realize that a 0W30 can be (significantly) thicker than a 5W30.
 
#37 ·
copperbeech said:
It is basically only GM that doesnt specify a 20 weight for any of its recent engines ie many Ford and Chrysler engines use 5W20.

I agree in that a 0W30 does everything a 5W30 can do and more. However also realize that a 0W30 can be (significantly) thicker than a 5W30.
0W is thicker than 5W? - I thought the 0W was thinner than 5W when cold.
 
#38 ·
copperhead13 said:
0W is thicker than 5W? - I thought the 0W was thinner than 5W when cold.
It depends how cold. Below a certain temperature the 0W will be lighter and flow more easily (than a 5W30) but sometimes that temperature cutoff is well below what most of us ever experience...even if we live in a climate which gets real winter.
 
#40 ·
mwyche2 said:
Did this actually fix the issue?
This is an OLD THREAD, but some points can be repeated, regarding the timing chain issue.

The original poster spoke of his grandfather with 40 + years as a service manager, who now has gathered timing chain info. Good info was provided.

Like that grandfather, I continue to gather info ..... or I'm fed info from my GM contacts, after my too many years with GM.

The timing chains were the "end result", the "final blow", after other items and situations occurred, within the engine, and its design.

Think in terms of a heart attack. The heart fails, but the actual failure is caused by the restriction, within an artery.

Earlier '09 engines had a restricted, or UNDERSIZED OIL FEED PASSAGE, a passage providing oil to the timing chains.

That oil feed passage has the responsibility of lubricating the timing chains.

Couple that UNDERSIZED OIL FEED PASSAGE scenario with the advertised, extended oil change intervals. Extended oil change intervals can lead to sludge build up. Overall lack of maintenance can ALSO lead to a sludge filled engine.

Sludge collecting in an UNDERSIZED OIL FEED PASSAGE can lead to oil starvation, reducing critical oil circulation to the timing chains.

No oil circulation = failures of the timing chains.

If you were the deciding GM executive, do you replace all the known engine blocks with the UNDERSIZED OIL FEED PASSAGE, for BIG BUCKS, or do you simply reset the OLM, for lesser BIG BUCKS, to lessen the intervals between oil changes, hoping that the sludge build up will be minimized, within the UNDERSIZED OIL FEED PASSAGE ? We all know how that "problem" was addressed.

Known by VIN identification, the later '09 and newer model run engines have a LARGER OIL FEED PASSAGE incorporated, into its engine design.

Neither the OLM / ECM recalibration or the timing chains replacement are recalls.

RECALLS have no expiration date. Both of these policies have expiration dates.

The OLM / ECM is known as a "customer satisfaction" policy, while the replacement of the timing chains is a "warranty extension" of the factory warranty.

I own a late production '09. 88,000 miles now.

My oil is not synthetic, my oil is 5W 30. My oil changes do not go beyond 4 months or 4,000 miles, WHICHEVER comes first.

My timing chains are original .... as of today, anyhow. :cheers:
 
#41 ·
My Traverse 2010 LTZ

I just wanted to say that I love my Traverse so much!!!!!!!! I have been driving suvs for about twelve years and was so happy Chevrolet designed such a wonderful crossover. I think they really did their homework. I was so burned out on suvs. I wanted something fun and family like. My Traverse has been very reliable and produced some great gas mileage. My kids love it and so does my husband who is 6'4. My Toyota sequoia just was not comfortable enough fro him to drive. he loves driving my traverse. Mine is the LTZ so I have everything I could ever want on it. Thanks Chevrolet for a awesome car!!!! I just cannot say enough!!!!!!
 
#42 ·
Well, I have a 2010 Traverse, build date 05/10 from Lansing. It always had a rattle on startup from the timing chain area from the day I bought it new. It would only last a couple seconds then go away, and since it was brand new, I figured it was normal. I always changed the oil well ahead of the oil monitor indication.
At 66K miles the engine pretty much quit. CEL, undriveable, etc. Had it towed to the dealer and guess what, excessive timing chain wear. At least they fixed it under warranty.
Now the funny thing is, now that I have it back with new chains, tensioner, guides, etc. it runs better than ever, and NO startup rattle.
Sounds like there may be more to this that what some people think, and certainly NOT limited to '09 or early '10
 
#43 ·
Along with what Bob posted on the extended drain intervals and the smaller passages....

the wear on the chains- was also made worse by some owners that never checked their oil level in up to 10,000 miles.
 
#44 ·
rbarrios said:
Along with what Bob posted on the extended drain intervals and the smaller passages....

the wear on the chains- was also made worse by some owners that never checked their oil level in up to 10,000 miles.
A valid point, Robert. Further insight below .....

In the 90's, GM's Chevrolet V8 oil filter was black in color, from the factory. Replacement filter was blue, in color.

Too many times, a 20,000 mile car would be towed in, with a "no start" or "stopped running" complaint from the customer.

You guessed it, engine seized ....... and the FACTORY BLACK FILTER was still on the 20,000 mile vehicle.

No customer maintenance on their big dollar investment.

Difficult to understand. Go figure.
 
#46 ·
jimandamy said:
I just got a 2010 date on door says 6/2010 check engine came on so pushed onstar and they read a p0008 code continued for 5 rrestart. 2 hours later go to start and take to shop and light is off now?? Had car for 7 days this is a bad situation :-[
Help
yeah-- thats not looking good-
dealer or shop may want to change oil and see if its not related to a clogged sensor.

You may want to get a USED oil analysis-- if the oil is dark.... this will tell you how how the iron is.
pointing to a timing chain wearing-
 
#47 ·
I bought last Tuesday 7 days before the light came on from a Chevy dealer they are taking a look at it today
Have less than 200 miles that I put on it at this point not in for a Timeing chain repair and 16000$ I got it for :eek:hno: they changed oil before I got it 3 months ago
 
#48 ·
jimandamy said:
I bought last Tuesday 7 days before the light came on from a Chevy dealer they are taking a look at it today
Have less than 200 miles that I put on it at this point not in for a Timeing chain repair and 16000$ I got it for :eek:hno: they changed oil before I got it 3 months ago
well good news gm is picking up the bill needs new timing chains is there any other things to have them check? Would switch to synthetic help
 
#49 ·
jimandamy said:
well good news gm is picking up the bill needs new timing chains is there any other things to have them check? Would switch to synthetic help
Glad to hear GM is standing behind their product. Switching to synthetic is a personal preference. There are many here that are using conventional (Dino) oil with great success. I switched to Pennzoil Platinum and the AC Delco PF-63E filter a long time ago. Nearly 96K on the clock and still going strong.
 
#50 ·
Toddzilla67 said:
Glad to hear GM is standing behind their product. Switching to synthetic is a personal preference. There are many here that are using conventional (Dino) oil with great success. I switched to Pennzoil Platinum and the AC Delco PF-63E filter a long time ago. Nearly 96K on the clock and still going strong.
Thanks it has 90130 miles they have to drain oil anyway so it can't hurt to go synthetic
 
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