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Discussion Starter #1
Making offers on some 2010's (LT1's). Starting with about $6000 off MSRP, which means with a $2500 rebate I'm looking for about a 10% dealer discount. Counters are coming back around $3000 off (including the rebate!!!). That's ridiculous ... 1.2% dealer discounts. There's no way I'm buying a Traverse with such a lame dealer discount.

What kind of dealer discounts have others been getting, for what trim levels, and what time of year and month. I'm talking about the discount the dealer added in, NOT rebates, NOT Loyalty incentives, NOT GM points/dollars. Just the dealer discount. 1.2% is ridiculously low - even for a dealer with only ONE unit left, but I guess they think it'll still sell...
 

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I can say that GM is keeping inventories 'low'.
GM is no longer overproducing vehicles that sit on lots--- and then must be sold at huge discounts like in the past (at a loss)
They are making just enough to be sold at a profit.
So I can just say--- dont expect discounts like in the past.
Dealers know they can sell the vehicle and wont do stuff like the past....
Lets see what other say- they are getting.

Good luck.
 

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GM dealers are keeping inventories under control, dealers, like everyone else, are watching their pennies.. Dealers either purchase the vehicles outright or floorplan the vehicles with the bank. It is more cost effective to keep inventories lower and hold out for some gross.

To the poster who is concerned with discounts and measuring the discounts in percentages, go to any auto website, such as Edmunds or Kelleys, punch in what you're looking for, including options, and you'll be given the actual invoice. Percentages are not a good way to measure a deal, for options and models may have varied "percentage" rates of profit.

Invoice prices listed do not take into account dealer hold back amounts.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Rbarrios:

Low inventories might've been true in 2010 because GM was obviously having BIG problems with cash flow and Obama was running the show (still is), but I don't see this with the 2011's. There are PLENTY of 2011's out there and the distribution is what you'd expect (and what it's been like in the past): The LARGE dealers (250+ units) have 8-12 units (some 20 and more), the mid-sized dealers (150-250) have 7-10 units, and the smaller dealers (90-150) have 4-6. So, yeah, in 2010 they were "making just enough to be sold", but I think it's because that's all they could do.

BobG1951Chevy:
I DO use Edmunds. I have been for years – it’s all anyone has to go by to avoid getting ripped off at the dealerships. But where does that data come from? Has to come from GM itself, right (?) , so it’s really just one big circle jerk! They can publish whatever they want. Did you notice that the published difference between invoice and MSRP suddenly got cut in HALF for 2010 (with the “NEW” GM)? And that’s got the dealerships chanting the party line that they can’t do the discounts of the past because “there’s no margin in these cars anymore”. C’mon – we’re being manipulated to pay more up-front for these cars while the dealers are getting it back on the other end. With my $4000 GM points, a 2010 LT1 Traverse with ONLY Personal Conductivity and Trailering (relatively inexpensive options) is still going to cost me $27,000! That’s ridiculous! Gotta believe I can do that deal WITHOUT my GM points on an equivalent Ford or Chrysler. Really need to find that out …
 

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Whatever model you are considering ( in stock ) ...... look at the dealers invoice (that can be done ) and make your offer.

"Points" from your GM card is limited by the card company ..... 4K for you to use seems way high.

If the above doesn't meet your expectations ..... buy a Ford ! They need the business too.

Bob
 

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We bought our 2010 LTZ last Christmas. I saw the invoice the dealer would show me which was about $2200 less than sticker--this invoice price was exactly the same number you'll find on Edmunds, Cars.com, or any other website. Now, although the dealer is still protected and GM makes a profit at this price, the dealer will probably budge little from that number if at all. If you won't buy it, someone else will. Supply is down, demand is up a little bit--this favors GM and its dealers, not the buyer. This way of doing things is probably here to stay for a long time.

I made an offer on a 2009 LTZ just after Thanksgiving. This car had been on the lot for six months and not moved (actually sold once and backed out of before delivery), so my offer (about 15% off sticker) reflected some depreciation and the fact the car had been on the lot so long. My offer was politely refused, but I wasn't upset about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
bobg1951Chevy:

I don't need to see the dealer invoice. The Edmunds numbers are good enough. Besides, I never negotiate a car deal in the showroom. All my offers are sent remotely. I only show up at the dealership to sign the papers and drive away. But with the way things are going this buying season, I might actually have to make a few personal appearances to see if that can make a difference.

As for the "points", $4000 is correct and I can use all of it. I know, you're saying - "but that's over the cap ...". Yes it is. You CAN go over the cap. In fact, I've actually wasted a year's worth of points, rolling them around because I didn't like anything GM had to offer in 2008 or 2009. And I'm on the original plan, by the way. If any of you are on the later program(s) - or were duped into switching to the later program about 10 years ago (I know at least one person who was), they tell you how many points you can use on a purchase (which is lousy). Just guessing, but a Traverse is probably around $2000? The day they switch me over to the later program is the day I'm done with GM. Definitely won't be worth it at that point. Better to be a "free agent" and buy whatever is the best all-around deal at the time.

Toddzilla67:

Yeah, I'm not surprised the invoice you saw matched the Edmunds numbers. The data is all coming from the same place. It HAS to be. How could Edmunds possibly know what it cost GM to build each car (unless they were OWNED by GM)? And if GM was upset with Edmunds for publishing this information, why aren't they suing Edmunds for theft of company-private information? It's a circle-jerk. The manufacturers and dealers are in cahoots against us. They laugh at us every time they make a sale - and for the people who don't use the published data, they laugh even harder!

And I still say supply is not "down". It was down in 2010, but it's on the upswing now for 2011. Whereas 2010 Equinoxes were previously nowhere to be found, 2011's are out there on dealer lots in full-force! No shortages anymore.

2014/2015 will be the year(s) of reckoning for the "new" GM. If I'm driving a $31,000 Traverse (for $27,000 out-of-pocket), or a $25,000 Equinox (for $21,000 out-of-pocket) and my coolant starts disappearing, I'm going to go ballistic !!!!
 

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"Low inventories might've been true in 2010 because GM was obviously having BIG problems with cash flow and Obama was running the show (still is), but I don't see this with the 2011's. There are PLENTY of 2011's out there and the distribution is what you'd expect (and what it's been like in the past): The LARGE dealers (250+ units) have 8-12 units (some 20 and more), the mid-sized dealers (150-250) have 7-10 units, and the smaller dealers (90-150) have 4-6. So, yeah, in 2010 they were "making just enough to be sold", but I think it's because that's all they could do".

Traverse "numbers" are not simply a percent of the total vehicle inventory at a dealership.

Instead, Traverse inventory ( like other GM models) is based on "turn and earn" scenario ...or allocation. The dealer sells one, which generates an order for another one.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #9
bobg1951chevy,

Yeah, you're probably right about the 'turn and earn' thing, but the higher-volume dealers are turning more units, so they have more units to sell.
 

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Colt Hero said:
bobg1951chevy,

Yeah, you're probably right about the 'turn and earn' thing, but the higher-volume dealers are turning more units, so they have more units to sell.
That is EXACTLY correct!

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So we said the same thing two different ways.

What I was getting at was you guys were saying inventories were low, pricing was tight, and I was agreeing - but for 2010 only. In 2010 it didn't matter if you were a 300+ new car dealership or a 100+ new car dealership; you weren't getting 2010 Equinoxes to sell in any kind of volume. Traverses probably weren't as bad because it was the 2nd model year, but numbers were probably down there too due to the same money and manufacturing issues.

But 2011 appears to be business as usual. Inventories are up! But pricing remains tight. And it'll remain tight as long as people on these boards keep thinking it's still 2010. Buyers need to get tougher with the dealerships to demand better dealer discounts. And as inventories pile up, it should get easier and easier. Already, the 2011 Traverse rebate increased from $1500 to $2000 - a sign that inventories ARE starting to back up. That's good news for buyers.

And remember - although it appers "NEW" GM is building nicer-LOOKING vehicles (than "OLD" GM did), we have no idea if they'll turn out to be any better mechanically. As the "pioneer" buyers of this new car company, we should be getting HUGE discounts, not some measly 1.2%.

I say HOLD OUT FOR THE BIGGER DEALER DISCOUNTS. I think they're coming soon.
 

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If I may, I think what Bob was getting at was GM and the dealers are pretty much operating on a "one out, one in" philosophy. If inventories are up it may be because allocations are up a little. I can see that on my local dealer's lot, but it is very early in the model year. A few more cars to choose from (trim levels, colors, options) might generate more interest from potential buyers.

I know we all try to get the best deal we can, but as a consumer, I would be more likely to buy a current model year to avoid absorbing more depreciation up front on last year's model. Now I did make an offer on a 2009 when 2010s were hitting the lot, but my offer reflected some depreciation in the value of the 2009. That would have been a screaming deal on a car that I could have lived with (even though it was black).

If we're disagreeing here, it's not much. You both make great points.
 

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Toddzilla,

Yes, this "allocation" system is a GM function, not something a dealer decides to do .... it is mandated by GM. If inventories are up, then allocation is up. If allocation is up, then sales are up.

Think about what the other poster is stating here ....he is finding a 1.2% discount. Based on a $30,000 MSRP, the 1.2% calculates to $360.

If his dealer or dealers is only offereing a $360.00 discount, something is REALLY wrong!

Bob
 

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I agree Bob. Our dealer here is having a "sale" this week. A $46K 2011 LTZ was on sale for about 3% off sticker.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Toddzilla67,

I ALWAYS buy leftovers because, to me, it's your best deal. You get AT LEAST another 5% off MSRP which is AT LEAST $1000 for a relatively inexpensive (these days) $20,000 car. To me, car depreciation is a non-issue because I NEVER trade cars in. My philosophy is "buy new (leftover) and hold for 10 years or 200,000 miles - whichever comes last". I service my cars myself, I rarely have any problems, and owning multiple cars is not a headache for me like it seems to be with so many people I know.

As far as the one-in-one-out philosophy, with all due respect, I doubt that's the case. I really do believe it's the 'more you sell, the more you get' model. It's a model used in a lot of different businesses. Where I work, if my department doesn't use their budget for the calendar year, they get a smaller budget the following year. It's a downward spiral, so they make sure they spend to their limit every year for fear of their department being downsized.

Bobg1951chevy:

It's 1.2% on $34,00+, so a little more than $360, but not much. And that's ON TOP OF the rebate, of course, so it's not like it's just a $500 discount off MSRP. Still, it's horrible. Happy to report that I'm finding much better numbers now (on 2011's). Dealers with the 2010's appear to be holding out until next year before they start coughing up the 5% money (which is not unusual, by the way). So the 2010's will sit (unless a dealer convinces an unsuspectng customer to take the 2010 over the 2011 for just a cup of coffee price difference (and then the DEALER keeps the 5% money!!!!)
 

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Colt,


I have read all you have written on this subject of Traverse pricing, left overs, discounts, etc. I must say you're way off base on all of what you have stated.

Being that you have not yet purchased a Traverse, please take the time to consider the Ford lineup.

I was employed by Chevrolet for 35 years, first at the dealership level (retail), then at the factory level (wholesale). When it comes to Chevrolet policies and procedures, I do not speak from "opinion", I speak from facts provided to me from within my career.

Some folks enter this forum looking for information, others enter this forum like bulls in a China shop, looking to establish themselves in a negative manner.

Either way, the facts are the facts, I have attempted to disclose facts, as they are stated within the Chevrolet Division of GM.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Bob,

Your posts haven't said much of anything. I mean, you put words together well enough, but there's no substance there. Let's take a closer look at some of your words of wisdom that only someone with 35 years at Chevy would be able to produce:

1.) "Dealers are watching their pennies" - They're ALL doing this, right Bob? And you KNOW this because ... Oh yeah, that's right - you worked for Chevy for 35 years!
2.) "Dealers either purchase the vehicles outright or floorplan them...". Is there any other way they could do it, Bob?
3.) "It is more cost-effective to keep inventories lower and hold out for some gross" ... but Bob says 1.2% is TOO LOW. I'll pass that along to my dealership so they can call you for advice.
4.) "go to Edmunds and you'll be given the actual invoice". - Bob, the Internet has been around for 15 years now. Who doesn't know this???
5.) "Invoice prices do not take into account dealer hold back amounts". Did you learn this during your 35 years at Chevy or did you read it on one of the THOUSANDS of websites out there?
6.) "Points" from your GM card is limited by the card company ..... 4K for you to use seems way high". - Bob, of course the points are limited by the card company, but you obviously don't know what programs are available.
7.) "look at the dealers invoice (that can be done ) and make your offer". - Bob, there's more to it than that.
8.) "Traverse "numbers" are not simply a percent of the total vehicle inventory at a dealership" - Bob, I didn't say that a 300-vehicle dealer gets 20 Traverses (for example), I said there are plenty of them out there in distributions you'd expect to see and there didn't appear to be any shortages anywhere like there was in 2010 with the Equinoxes.
9.) Think about what the other poster is stating here ....he is finding a 1.2% discount. Based on a $30,000 MSRP, the 1.2% calculates to $360. If his dealer or dealers is only offereing a $360.00 discount, something is REALLY wrong! No, there's nothing wrong Bob! They're holding out for more "gross" - just like you said they would!

Now Bob, why don't you go through what I wrote and tell me why I'm "way off base". I'd like to read that analysis. And make sure you precede every critique with, "As a 35-year employee of Chevrolet..."
 

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Colt Zero,

Anything and everything I wrote to you was to hopefully assist you ... for your writing skills / words indicated you were lost within the process and certainly aggitated. I recall you stating you were going to go ballistic in the year 2015 if you had a cooling system issue with your GM vehicle. HUH?. Amazing commentary.

A very few individuals, such as yourself, do not accept facts for what they are. Instead, you create your own facts. That being said, without your acceptance of the facts and structures, you certainly don't need my assistance ....

Enough said.

Bob
 

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bobg1951chevy said:
A very few individuals, such as yourself, do not accept facts for what they are. Instead, you create your own facts. That being said, without your acceptance of the facts and structures, you certainly don't need my assistance ....

Enough said.

Bob
Bob I wouldn't waste my time. It seems like someone is having a tantrum because they are not getting their way, or what they think they rightfully deserve. Move on.

Colt, I obviously do not know you. But you come across as the type of guy who will beat someone up all day long to save a buck, feel bad that it was so difficult, and then complain about it. Don't let the process p*ss you off.

On a side note I just agreed to purchase a 2011 Enclave CXL-2 for "invoice" here in Minneapolis. That is an $1800 discount on a $47,000 vehicle, or about 4% discount. The $2000 rebate and $1300 GM Card earnings will be deducted on top of that. These combined with a pretty decent trade-in value on my 08 Enclave make me happy with the deal.

Will they make a few bucks off of me? Heck yeah. But my place of employment also makes more than a few bucks off of everyone that uses our products. That's the way it works.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Bob:

You didn't help in any way. You simply tried to justify the 1.2% discount with your vague generalities and then at the very end attempt to legitimize them by saying you worked for Chevy for 35 years. The comment about going "ballistic" was said in jest, and it was in reference to the infamous intake gasket failure that plagued hundreds of thousands of GM vehicles across multiple models, engine types, and model years. It was a $1200+ dealer repair bill that happened VERY EARLY in the "life" of the vehicle (mine @65,000) and most likely angered and alienated hundreds of thousands of GM customers. Very surprised, with 35 years at Chevy, that you didn't know what I was referring to. Oh I know - you were thinking that I was going to go "ballistic" if a $25 radiator hose sprung a leak, right???

Bob - if you want to "help" people, try providing some real data instead of your mumbo-jumbo prose that anybody can spit out. Remember, like zman says - we don't know who you are or what your credentials are. You could be a janitor working at NASA bumping into some of the smartest people on the planet, but that doesn't mean you can chat on a forum about what goes on in the Space Program! Unfortunately, it's too easy to sound like a 'rocket scientist' when it comes to car sales. Anybody can do it and everything you need to know about it you learn the first day or two, then it's just sit around and wait. Someday I'd love to do a study on why people choose (or end up in) their "professions". I think it'd be very interesting (but certainly not surprising).

zman:

I'm not having a "tantrum". I received a 1.2% dealer discount which seemed AWFULLY LOW to me and I was wondering if this was typical for a Traverse (since it seems to be with the Equinox). That's all. I was looking for some actual data, but Bob decided to step in and try to justify it with his "dealers are watching their pennies" drivel, while at the same time nit-picking at everything I said. Bob sat around at a dealership for probably a quarter century, so I guess it's not too suprising that he'd support the sales side. But it turns out Bob's wrong because I'm starting to see offers similar to what you got. Actually have a couple of offers at over $4200 off sticker (including rebate, of course) which works out to a 6.5% dealer discount. I think that's fair. And these aren't offers that I've "gone back and forth on" with anybody. They're first-time offers. And no, I'm not trying to "beat someone up all day long to save a buck". I just wanted to see some actual data so that I could decide if I was going to proceed with a purchase. I would NEVER buy a GM product with only a 1.2% dealer discount because it would essentially neutralize my GM 'dollars' to the point where buying a competitor's vehicle might make more sense. GM has me as a captive audience to a certain extent with my GM points program, but that doesn't mean they're going to make me pay sticker for their cars...
 
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