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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
jcbecker28 said:
If you can't fix it when there is a problem, then don't build it.
YES!!

"Codes" are a programmers best guess at what will go wrong. So the lack of codes should not mean there is nothing wrong. The lack of codes during an actual problem actually means someone didn't do their job in writing the codes. It should not shift liability away from the manufacturer and onto the customer.

If there is no code, the next step should be diagnostics. Simple, sometimes time consuming tests, to validate what is know and eliminate variables.

Once a level of confidence is gained, then start replacing parts.

Once parts are replaced, and the problem solved, write a TSB, make them publicly available, and disseminate the information as quickly as you possibly can. One disgruntled customer will take 10 more people with him. I know for a fact that we will be leaving GM products. And telling everyone we know about our experience. My friend that owns the local garage also told us not to buy a GM product. Unfortunately at the time the Traverse was really the only vehicle that fit our needs and looked good doing it.

Another friend that owns a heavy truck repair business said it best "When the service guy tells you they've never heard of this before that is absolute BULL$HIT!"

In this case my problem seems to be one of two choices. I'll know by 2pm Saturday.

Now, on the topic of "no codes." A friend is the head mechanic at our local Ford dealer. He called me up and was explaining how he had a Mustang that was backfiring flames out the intake - the entire time setting no codes! Imagine that? Would GM simply tell us that a burned air filter was "normal?" I stopped in on my way by. He went to his toolbox and got out a good old fashioned analog vacuum gauge. The other mechanics in the shop came over bewildered as if he had a piece of alien technology in his hands. Surely a puck like object with only a hose dangling from it could be of no value!
 

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"Another friend that owns a heavy truck repair business said it best "When the service guy tells you they've never heard of this before that is absolute BULL$HIT!"

The service guy / technician at the specific dealership may not have heard of a specific problem, that could be understandable and acceptable ... but

I will tell you the folks at GM technical assistance HAVE heard of the problems.

It takes contact between the dealer and the factory folks at the GM technical assistance to obtain resolutions.
 

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Has the dealer pulled the intake and inspected for carbon buildup on the valves? I was getting 'misfires' when no codes were recorded. I've been fighting misfires in my '09 Outlook for the past year. Everything from replacing all the plugs, to swapping coil packs between cylinders, replacing coil packs, fuel line antifreeze... eventually to 'decarbon valves'. Moisture buildup under the coil packs was a problem too, cleaned up and dielectric grease there to solve that one.

Do you get a rough idle-down when cold starting? Perhaps uneven rpms. Smooths out and goes away once idled-down and warming up.

I've experienced the bucking at highway speeds, misfire under light load, particularly going up mild grades or big hills, happens when on cruise (or not).

Poor fuel economy and reduced power or reluctance to really "go" or accelerate are symptoms too to some extent are also symptoms.

Google/search: acadia coil pack

Read the top threads in the search results. Symptoms are similar to what I had and what you're describing. Quite often the problem progresses to the point where a code is thrown/logged and the CEL/SES light flashes on for a few moments. Then it's off to the dealership for repairs.

My $.02 is the technician should be able to diagnose using their experience and the SI and TSB's as guidance. The 'codes' are certainly helpful but should not be the end all be all of a techs ability to troubleshoot and resolve. Ever gone to a local repair shop that does only 'general repairs'? Sure they use OBD code readers too, but they rely on their common sense and knowledge and tap into other resources/references.
 

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How many times have we read in this forum that someone printed out a thread and took it to the dealer because he wasn't getting any satisfaction? (Steering issues seems to be the most frequent example.) That tells me that something's wrong with the "lessons learned" program between GM and their Dealers/technicians.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
When a google search turns up dozens of threads on the topic, at different websites, with GM personnel participation in the forums, there is no excuse for a service writer to NOT know what the heck is going on.

They all have computers on their desks! They have access to the same info I have, and more.

@bigtallvandy - I have not experienced any of the other symptoms you describe. I just have the runs rough and bucking at light load on inclines, etc.

You asked if the dealer had.....whatever. I fully expect the answer is no. They didn't seem eager to go out and find anything beyond what a CEL would produce.

I am past 100,000 miles now so I am now self-supporting the vehicle. Which suits me fine as I will likely have better results.

I too have a failing steering rack, but the replacement is inexpensive. The dealer has avoided getting that into any written documentation the last 3 times it was in (and I mentioned it).

They would likely be powerless to repair it as it sets no codes.

If coil packs, plugs, and borescope inspection of the valves through the intake do not fix it I will likely trade it in on a Q7 diesel.
 

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greentraverse said:
How many times have we read in this forum that someone printed out a thread and took it to the dealer because he wasn't getting any satisfaction? (Steering issues seems to be the most frequent example.) That tells me that something's wrong with the "lessons learned" program between GM and their Dealers/technicians.
"Lessons learned" are an ongoing concern. They have been problems and continue to be problems. Why?

Training is the ongoing responsibility of the dealer, i.e. the service manager / service director. Sometimes the shop is "too busy" to afford down time for training, so the manager believes.

Training is ULTIMATELY enforced by GM. But, the span in between ....... the "untrained" or " not up to date in training" technicians may take long periods of time for GM to discover. A lot of water can flow under the bridge, during that undiscovered time.

Untrained or not up to speed in training technicians = inaccurate diagnosis.

Accurate diagnosis= accurate repairs.
 

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I would have to agree with the comments on "throws no codes". On my 2013 I am having some strange issues (have not updated my thread on here yet) with the rear camera display freezing, compass is wrong at times, reset of fuel used, distance etc to zero, incorrect reporting to onstar app of litres left in tank etc.

Dealer checked it out and said no codes. GM rep said they cannot assist until dealer looks at it. After they looked at it (and said no codes etc) I talked to GM rep and was told they had not contacted GM. I asked GM to call the dealer and they said they could not - dealer has to call them. I think they watched the movie "Catch 22" too many times. (I have made sure it is put on the repair order each time and I email GM also to insure I have a big paper trail if I need it)

I really believe that a lot of dealers do not want the down time from sending mechanics on training and the customer pays. This vehicle is now 5 months old, only 4K kms on it and I am thinking of getting rid of it. Rides well, runs well but misc electronic issues are coming up too often.
 

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shasta59 said:
I would have to agree with the comments on "throws no codes". On my 2013 I am having some strange issues (have not updated my thread on here yet) with the rear camera display freezing, compass is wrong at times, reset of fuel used, distance etc to zero, incorrect reporting to onstar app of litres left in tank etc.

Dealer checked it out and said no codes. GM rep said they cannot assist until dealer looks at it. After they looked at it (and said no codes etc) I talked to GM rep and was told they had not contacted GM. I asked GM to call the dealer and they said they could not - dealer has to call them. I think they watched the movie "Catch 22" too many times. (I have made sure it is put on the repair order each time and I email GM also to insure I have a big paper trail if I need it)

I really believe that a lot of dealers do not want the down time from sending mechanics on training and the customer pays. This vehicle is now 5 months old, only 4K kms on it and I am thinking of getting rid of it. Rides well, runs well but misc electronic issues are coming up too often.
You are doing the correct thing, creating your documented paper trail. As stated several posts ago, it is, in fact, the responsibility of the dealership service management (but NOT the service advisor) to contact GM technical assistance.

Dealers/owners sometimes pay way too little attention to what is happening within their service departments ... and, at times, the 6 figure service manager seems too intimidated to contact GM technical service .... thinking he/she will get a black mark against their name, if they make that GM technical service call. Ego can be an ugly thing.

At any rate, contact Chevrolet Customer Service to initiate your concern, obtain a case number, then ask to have ANOTHER dealership look after your concerns.

The Traverse is a nice vehicle, don't allow bad service within one dealership to ruin your ownership experience.

There ARE good managers and technicians out there. Problem is, in reality, the good guys may be somewhat difficult to uncover.

Chevy Customer Service should be able to assist. However, I have noticed that the Chevy Customer Service folks, who monitor this site, have steered clear of this ongoing conversation from original poster.
 

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Chevy Customer Service should be able to assist. However, I have noticed that the Chevy Customer Service folks, who monitor this site, have steered clear of this ongoing conversation from original poster.
They seem to steer clear of most issues on this site. I've been on this forum for almost 2 years now and I think we're seeing less and less of them. And when they do get on, it seems to be for the issues that are most easily resolved (in fact, we posters have usually told the OP what to do already).

GM is ignoring their forums to their peril.
 

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greentraverse said:
They seem to steer clear of most issues on this site. I've been on this forum for almost 2 years now and I think we're seeing less and less of them. And when they do get on, it seems to be for the issues that are most easily resolved (in fact, we posters have usually told the OP what to do already).

GM is ignoring their forums to their peril.
Prior to this current "group" of Chevy Customer Service folks, we had a very active and dedicated young lady, named Michelle, as I recall. She was very helpful. Not afraid to dig in and help solve issues. Now it is "pick and choose" by CCS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
UPDATE

Met with Chevy dealer today. Between the diminished value of our trade-in due to this problem, resulting negative equity, and the cost of a new truck we were being asked to take on nearly $50k in debt to leave with a new truck and relieve them of the burden of having to honor their warranty and undertake the "impossible" task of repairing our truck.

This left us with no choice but to self-support.

We immediately dropped the truck off at a local shop with instructions to replace all plugs and coils. A few hours later it was done.

This fixed the problem!

I then set out to checking the old coils and could not find any anomalies across any of the terminals on any of the coils. This was done with a high-end multimeter that reads in Mega Ohms.

The only slight issue I found and is somewhat inconclusive was on two coils where the multimeter would count up in kohms until finally settling on "open".

After driving it around I discovered a few other things.

Our transmission apparently still has the old tune in it - it was at 1800 rpm at 40 mph in 5th gear.

On the highway before the repair, when it would misfire it would eventually downshift in a significant manner - like gaining 1000 rpm or more.

Now, it will run right at the point where it used to buck, and when it finally gets loaded up it will downshift such that it only gains 400 or 500 rpm or so. So perhaps only dropping one gear, or even unlocking the torque converter. But the downshift may be another clue to people self-diagnosing.

If it goes buck-buck-buck then screams in the rpm that would be exactly what ours was doing.

Now the engine sounds like it's working a bit, then a slight increase in rpm.

So my advice to anyone is that if you are not seeing the increase in rpm - change the coils. This should be the no-brainer repair decision.

And once again, Google help desk was correct.
 

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We immediately dropped the truck off at a local shop with instructions to replace all plugs and coils. A few hours later it was done.

This fixed the problem!

So, sometimes "throwing parts at it", in an intelligent manner, beats letting the dealer run endless diagnostic tests. Or selling you a new vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Red_2013_1LT said:
So, sometimes "throwing parts at it", in an intelligent manner, beats letting the dealer run endless diagnostic tests. Or selling you a new vehicle.
Yeah, but the parts were thrown after Googling, this and other forums, etc. I wish I could convey the number of times Google has helped me out.

But the way we looked at it was the value as-is on a trade was $8k less than we owed. And what we owe is on par with market values.

So we figure we had $8k to spend to fix this. That would rpelace nearly every electronic component on the entire drivetrain, and leave money left for a new set of tires!

The dealer made our decision very easy, but still side stepped their responsibility.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
FYI

Replacement parts were:

Coils: Duralast C1508
Plugs: Autolite XP Iridium XP5263 (gap was too large, regapped to .043)
Base gasket was not delivered in time, so old one was reused (and looked perfectly fine - rubber was still soft and squishy)
 

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I'm new to the forum, but not to the issues you all are experiencing. I have a 2012 Traverse with 60,000 miles. I got it worth about 20,000 and have fought the "bucking" issues with my dealer as long as I've had it. If I'm cruising at 30-35 and slow for a car slowing in front of me, then attempt to accelerate it feels like the bottom drops out. I'm actually pulled forward in my seat. After this alarming lag the car jerks back to life. The dealer They perpetually shows me the service bulletin explaining the .7 second lag GM programmed in to the Traverse to manage torque. I explain to them that my problem goes far beyond that, but inevitably we can't seem to replicate it when they drive it so they have done absolutely nothing to fix it. I also experience excessive revs on downshifts and some generally jerky performance. More recently I began experiencing the rough idle at cold start. Dealer did observe random misfires and replace 3 coil packs and plugs. One month later I'm back at the dealer. I have misfire on 1, 2, 3, 5 & 6. Two of the three cylinders with new coil packs are misfiring! This time they discovered another service bulletin related to the Catalytic Converter and explained that 5 of 6 cylinders misfiring is normal. Ugh! They offered to replace more coil packs at my expense, but two out of three that were just replaced are misfiring so I don't see the sense in sending good money after bad. My uncle is a GM Retiree and is going to help me get in touch with a GM Rep, but it sure seems like anything inconvenient to GM IS NORMAL.
 

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Hello all,

I have been fighting a problem with our 2009 Traverse. I have also been fighting a warranty service claim filed with GM to get them to perhaps actually try to diagnose the problem.

Two dealers have told me there is nothing they can do - no stored codes.

GM refuses to fix the vehicle and instead wants to give me a voucher for $4000 off a new vehicle.

So anyways, I have spent the last several days searching this forum and find a few people that either have this problem, or sounds extremely similar, but have not seen a resolution.

So the basics - 2009 Traverse LTZ. Bought used 20 months ago with 50k on it. Now has 100k on it. It has had this "bucking" problem since we bought it. It started out extremely rare and mild and has evolved to be pretty severe, completely predictable, and thoroughly annoying.

It originally only happened in 6th gear, but now does it in 4th, 5th, and 6th.

Basically - part throttle, light load, slight grade or hill. 45 to 60 mph Engine will start getting to wear it is working, starts to sound "different" and run a bit rougher, then it will buck or hesitate. It will not always buck or hesitate once it runs rougher, but it will ONLY do it after the load, sound, and running rougher have started.

Dealer has rebuilt transmission, put in new timing chains, other diagnostic work.

I have started data logging this truck with the torque app and during the "running rough and bucking periods" I see several very strange anomalies in the data.

It is worse with the cruise control on, and usually happens at fixed speed, or near cruising speed when speeding up.

Specifically:
Engine Load goes rapidly to 100% and stays there (even though speed, throttle position and grade are unchanged)
Engine load absolute goes to 109%
Throttle Position Manifold goes to 83% (which is essentially pegged) even though I have not pressed the pedal any harder
Volumetric Efficiency (Calculated) goes very high
Fuel Flow goes high, in a very non-linear relationship

In laymens terms, it seems like the fuel flow is not right (likely high) the throttle is not open, so it runs rich, rough, bucks, and is essentially trying to stall. The transmission used to almost always kick-down a gear but not anymore. It often just stays in gear - usually 6th gear.

I have my suspicions, but hoping to get some feedback from the group.

I am an engineer, been a car guy for 35 years, know almost everything there is to know about cars (except for GM die-by-wire throttles). I am good with data collection, analysis, trends, graphing. I have an AWD chassis dyno available 15 minutes from my house. I am willing to spend the cash there to make it do this and diagnose it in real time.

Any suggestions?

It is NOT the tires, engine oil level, coil packs
I'm having the same problem with my 2012 Traverse. I had the dealer do a flush and fill today. No luck :(
 

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I now have torque pro and torque scan. I just sifted through it quick and did not see the misfire counts, but I will look again.

You know, the decision matrix for this seems pretty simple:

Does vehicle drive rough / hesitate / buck at highway speeds? Yes

Does the tachomter increase in rpm a little bit while this happens? Yes = Torque converter, No = coil packs

Perhaps I oversimplify. But from what I have now learned via the internet the above will lead you to the correct answer 90% of the time.

It's kind of sad that in this day a lockup torque converter would fail. This sounds like something out of the 80's. I have had several cars in the last two decades that were automatics and did not have lockup TC failure. Many of them with way over 100K on the clock. And a rough life to boot!

And this "no codes = nothing we can do" mentality - pathetic.

I'm going to drive the truck on my commute tomorrow (1 hour each way) I will be paying much more attention to the scans.

Also, bought 6 coils, 6 plugs, whatever gasket is needed, etc. Going to replace it all this Saturday.
Did replacing the coils work or was it the torque converter?
 

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Just had he same issue with my 2010 and it turned out to be the third converter was plugged and insides falling apart. Cleaned it out and runs perfectly.
 

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I now have torque pro and torque scan. I just sifted through it quick and did not see the misfire counts, but I will look again.

You know, the decision matrix for this seems pretty simple:

Does vehicle drive rough / hesitate / buck at highway speeds? Yes

Does the tachomter increase in rpm a little bit while this happens? Yes = Torque converter, No = coil packs

Perhaps I oversimplify. But from what I have now learned via the internet the above will lead you to the correct answer 90% of the time.

It's kind of sad that in this day a lockup torque converter would fail. This sounds like something out of the 80's. I have had several cars in the last two decades that were automatics and did not have lockup TC failure. Many of them with way over 100K on the clock. And a rough life to boot!

And this "no codes = nothing we can do" mentality - pathetic.

I'm going to drive the truck on my commute tomorrow (1 hour each way) I will be paying much more attention to the scans.

Also, bought 6 coils, 6 plugs, whatever gasket is needed, etc. Going to replace it all this Saturday.
Did replacing the coils work? Having same issue with my 2009 Traverse.. 120k.
 

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Have you tried replacing the Variable Valve Timing Solenoids? This is a common issue in this model, the bucking, misfiring, and loss of RPM/Improper shifting is usually caused by the clogged solenoids. People seem to always replace coil packs which are almost never the issue with this diagnosis (unless it throws specific bank code only). I have the exact same symptoms in my 09 LT, I replaced all Coils, Plugs, and Wires, Purge Solenoid, Evap runs, and gaskets hoping it was simple or just a leak somewhere. It wasn't any of those. Yesterday I replaced the two VVT solenoids near the firewall which were easy to get to after pulling the fuse box, it took about 20 mins. I still have to replace the front two but looks like I have to remove the engine mount and hose to get to them. The two back solenoids were clogged for sure, after I replaced them I went for a drive, no more misfire at lower gears and the transmission is shifting properly under high load and speeds now, however I do get a few small misfires and bucking just as it shifts around 60 but only if I keep my foot steady, if I give it more it will only misfire and not buck. It certainly is better and I feel power restored just from the two backs being changed. Keep in mind I just had an oil change which is required when changing these, but when I pulled the back two VVTs the oil residue on the solenoid's micro filter was black as black, which tells me there was no flow at all going through those solenoids since the new oil is still clean. My guess is the front two solenoids are causing the remaining misfires. I'm saving those for my next day off. The codes I have being thrown have not changed before or after replacing everything up to the solenoids, they just state bank misfires, which tell me nothing really. All of that was replaced with the correct coils and plugs (and yes they are the right ones, already went through that separate issue). All that was left for me to try were the VVT Solenoids. My injector is new, and the transmission does have the replacement disc kit (from chevy) work done although I never had issues there.

Honestly even if this doesn't fix the misfires, the solenoids should have been replaced anyway since this engine burns through oil and is known to clog them, they are around the same price as a decent coil pack and definitely worth replacing them just for maintenance purposes. You will notice a big difference. I know the pic I took doesn't help much, but this is the general location of the back two, right above belt. I had trouble finding all of the information out there about this but when I do the next two I will be taking pictures and making a guide on here if it is in fact what solves the problem, I will take pics of the old parts to show how dirty they get also. I really hope this helps someone because boy did it suck for me to diagnose lol. I am pretty confident this will solve the issue. I did have a post on my progress and a few questions I had about help with 3 and 4 solenoids but I guess someone deleted it? I was going to link it but oh well...

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