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Author Topic: PCV routing on Lambdas - free oil consumption mod  (Read 9863 times)
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alacran
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« on: October 25, 2012, 02:11:43 PM »

Trying to diagnose where oil is coming from.  The intake valves were growing cauliflower deposits.  Any help with diagrams would be great.



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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2012, 02:14:13 PM »

Here's a catch can I've come across that looks like it is built quite well.  It's not the cheapest, but...

http://www.carformance.com.au/products/42-draft-designs/ultimate-oil-catch-can.html
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2012, 03:48:26 PM »

Here's what I use on my 2007 TBSS:

billetprototypes oil catchcan:
http://www.tbssowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74053

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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 08:54:53 AM »

Trying to get one thread going about PCV.  so i am doing some clean up.  Mods feel free to help out.

Holden


camaro


Any ideas as to why have two PCV lines?  Also, upon further inspection the camaro also has two PCV lines.  I think it is time for a separate thread on this issue.
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2012, 08:55:59 AM »

What i am thinking is...doing the CTS PCV modification on Red and the catch can on Green

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alacran
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2012, 09:14:35 AM »

Found this, apparently Green is fresh air for the PCV system....

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-- Reminder

On the Acadia, Outlook and Enclave, the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) fresh air tube is difficult to remove from the outlet duct. It is very easy to damage the outlet duct to PCV tube interface point when attempting to remove the tube. Remove the upper intake manifold sight shield for access (fig. 10).


A  Do not attempt to disassemble this connection

The tube can be easily disconnected at the camshaft cover fitting and repositioned out of the way (fig. 11), without having to remove it from the outlet duct assembly.



A  Rubber tube disconnected from cam cover fitting

TIP: Refer to SI document 1860669.

- Thanks to Gary McAdam


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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2012, 10:56:32 AM »

on a side note---
THe new Camaro--- comes with a Catch can- that is to be installed when the car is run on the track.
Maybe some of this will give you somekind of clue....

Camaro 1LE PCV Oil Separator Kit

The increased handling performance of the 2013 Camaro with the 1LE performance package can generate some off-road or track conditions where engine oil can be ingested into the air cleaner through the fresh air tube that connects the port within the right valve cover to the air cleaner. The Chevrolet Performance Positive Crankcase Vent (PCV) oil separator kit can improve this condition. It’s a standard part of the 1LE performance package.

 

The kit (part number 12653073) is included with other packaged components in the vehicle. It should not be installed during PDI at the dealership. The kit and instructions should be kept in the car. Owners are responsible for installing the oil separator in the car for track use.

 

The kit is designed for off-road or track use only. The production PCV system should be installed back on the vehicle when driving on public roads.

 

The kit is not designed for winter driving conditions (ambient temperature should be above 32° F, 0°C).

 

Kit Contents

 

The PCV oil separator kit includes:

• Main housing (Fig. 7, A)
• PCV cap/plug (Fig. 7, B)
• Connecting tube (Fig. 7, C)
• Instruction sheet


The kit instructions cover how to remove the PCV tube that features quick connect fittings (Fig. Cool, installing the PCV cap/plug over the valve cover PCV port, and installing the PCV main housing in the oil fill neck in the valve cover. (Fig. 9)





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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2012, 10:56:38 AM »

Found this, apparently Green is fresh air for the PCV system....

Interesting... I've had no issue with the PCV hose-to-intake snorkel connection.  There is a tab lock that you must push down and rotate to release the lock.
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 11:00:47 AM »

Found this, apparently Green is fresh air for the PCV system....



yes- the early models- owners/shops would break those...
it was changed to a quick connect like mentioned above.
Someone posted a pic of a repair shops sloppy fix--- and his fix (much neater)
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 12:28:23 PM »

Here is the answer.  Dont have to reinvent the wheel.  The Cadillac guys already figured it out.  See below for PCV details.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-first-generation-forum-2003/210624-oil-consumption-possible-pcv-valve-addition-2.html

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01-22-11 07:48 PM #20
Doug In NC
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Re: Oil consumption, and possible PCV valve addition???

    I just started the timing chain job on my friend's 05 and wanted to follow up with some more info regarding the PCV system.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3194.jpg

    The first picture above shows where the fresh air for the PCV system comes from. There's a fitting on the air boot after the MAF that allows filtered air to enter the driver's side valve cover.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3198.jpg

    This second picture shows the other end of that hose connecting to the valve cover, it's just rearward of the last coil on that bank. If you note the convoluted tubing with the white label, that's the hose and it goes to a 45 degree fitting coming out of the valve cover that is under the brake booster vacuum hose shown in this picture above.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3197.jpg

    If you'll look at the intake plenum, there's a black hose that enters both sides of if, just below the shiny freeze plug looking component.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3220.jpg

...    

    With the orfice removed completely from the intake you can look down in there with a flashlight and see that there's really not a lot of restriction in there (hopefully)

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3245.jpg

    Above you'll see the where this other end of this vacuum related PCV hose seats on to a fitting from the passenger's side valve cover, just above the yellow fuel line label.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3246.jpg

    This picture shows the complete VACUUM side of the PCV system, upper left where it goes in to the passenger side valve cover and the there's a "T" on the backside of the intake and the hoses continue up to the middle/side of each bank.

    The part that attaches to the passenger side valve cover has a spring loaded clip (it's just plastic that is bent to provide the spring action) that has to be carefully released to prevent it from braking, see pic below:

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3206.jpg

    They split the vacuum hose portion so that, in theory, one bank alone is not saturated with all of the crank-case fumes/vapor/oil. Also, there is no function PCV valve like we're used to seeing, no check valve, spring and ball or whatever. It appears to be a restrictive hose where the diameter itself meters the airflow. With the vacuum side PCV hose off you can suck or blow in to any end of it the flow is the same and does not become blocked like a check valve would.

    The underside of the intake plenum shows that oil is definitely making it's way in to the intake stream causing the oil consumption that we've been chasing since he bought the car used a year or so ago. The mileage on this model is just over 75,000.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3239.jpg

    Additionally, below you'll see two pictures of the spark plug. The first picture shows the white crusty build up that you could expect to see in an engine that has excessive oil making it's way to the combustion chamber.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3248.jpg

    This second picture shows the same plug rotated 180 degrees. Based on the lack of deposits on this side it would be easy to believe that the first side is the side facing the intake port itself where the oil would contact first and the second is cleaner because of the lack of exposure.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3249.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3242.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3243.jpg

    The last two pictures show the intake manifold itself, still attached to the engine. It's pretty clear that one bank has been exposed to more oil than the other but I really don't have an explanation as to why nor do I have a decent plan for reducing the problem. You can also note where the two hoses come together as one and then lead over to the valve cover. Also, it's important to note that if you plan on doing something with the PCV system you'll need to remember that you're dealing with a Mass Airflow Engine Management system. This means that any attempt to vent the PCV system, add in a catch can with a filter or stick one of those cool little air filters that fit on your pinky on the valve cover then you may create a fuel trim issue leading to a Rich/Lean condition. In other words, if you add in a catch can, it has to be sealed and only pulling air from the properly sealed up valve cover and getting it's fresh air from the post-maf filtered air.

    Additionally, the PCV hoses shown above can become brittle on high mileage cars. The convoluted sections will become brittle and won't like to bend out of the way. Additionally, the softer rubber boot that goes to the driver's side valve cover will become softer and may not be a tight seal on high mileage cars as well. This again can cause a MAF trim issue and the solution will be to either replace the hose with a new one or put a hose clamp on it. From my experience, the hose clamp can work good for a while but if the boot is ultra soggy to begin with, the clamp will cut the hose and cause it to fail as well. Finally, if you don't use an OEM replacement hose and try to piece it together with hose from the parts store then you should know that not all hoses are equal. I've work on quite a number of cars where people put heater hose on where PCV hose was used before. This looks and fits fine for a while but give it a year or so and the hose that works for coolant will swell up the longer it's exposed to oil and crankcase vapors.
    Doug

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01-23-11 08:47 PM #21
Doug In NC
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Re: Oil consumption, and possible PCV valve addition???

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3261.jpg

    Some additional pictures now that the valve cover is off you can see the orfice in the back of the passenger side valve cover. It's just a small opening so the metering takes place here.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3260.jpg

    On the underside you can see that there are no baffles but the design of the cover will prevent oil from the lifters/cams/etc from sloshing directly up in to the orfice. Also, the openings on the underside of the orfice are quite small.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/Doug95neon/05%20Cadillac%20CTS%20Timing%20Chain%20Job/100_3264.jpg

    In addition to the separated passage you can see the back side of the cylinder head is cast in such a way that it will pull fumes from the head but it's certainly not a direct shot.


Basically, the orifice needs to be modified before any catch can be installed.  I will post pictures and instructions of the Traverse version of the modification.  CTS owners report significant lower oil consumption with this modification.
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alacran
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2012, 08:18:46 PM »

I just realized i neglected to pos the thread with the PCV modification...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-srx-first-generation-forum-2004/264073-free-fast-oil-consumption-mod-fix.html

Quote
OK, on the CTS board, there are a couple of guys with LY7s that claim they have fixed their oil consumption problem by modding their PCV orifice fitting. I just performed this mod - it is ridiculously easy and fast, and if you are well-equipped (tools, get your mind out of the gutter) it shouldn't cost anything.

The PCV orifice fitting lives in the right (passenger's side) valve cover, in the rear. It has a hose that clips onto it. The fitting is shaped like a PCV valve, only the neck is narrower and the base has two holes instead of one. It has no valve, but is continuously letting crankcase vapors pass.

The mod is to drill out two of the three holes to 7/64". My theory (and I haven't proven it yet) is that by opening up the holes, you reduce the velocity of the air flowing through the system, decreasing the amount of oil in suspension, and thereby reducing the amount burned off.

I used the following tools - a pair of medium sized vice grip pliers, a 7/64" drill bit and drill, a deep well 13mm 3/4" drive socket, a short 3/4" drive extension, a soft mallet, and some sealant (like Permatex Ultra Grey).

Step One: Displace (but do not remove) the engine cover by removing the power steering and oil filler caps and pulling up on the cover (it just snaps off and snaps back in):


Essentially, i plan on taking a similar approach but not going straight to 7/64" on both ends.  The idea is to make the PCV side less restrictive and make the fresh air side functional as intended.  In other words, the fresh air side is supposed to provide fresh air to the crankcase with this modification it will be used more that way instead of a PCV replacement.  Currently, the PCV side is too restrictive that the fresh air hose is providing the PCV into the intake.
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alacran
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2012, 11:43:00 PM »

modification complete oil level was just below the third hole but not half way to the second hole.
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alacran
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 09:59:52 PM »

Update: just did the oil change and oil level is the SAME!  

Oil had over 3.6K miles on it and 1% on the oil life monitor.  The "CTS" modification worked.

I will keep an eye on it but now I can back off on level inspections.

I think what was happening here is the the orifice was too restrictive and that allowed all the oil to escape through the larger, less restrictive, fresh air hose.  Then, instead of pulling burnable oil vapors from the PCV side (orifice) the engine was pulling larger quantities of oil through the intake.  This lead to the oil consumption and oil carry over in the intake.

Enlarging the holes in the orifice allows for the burnable oil vapors to go through by reducing the restriction.

The oil level now is right at the third hole on the gauge (after adding 6 Qts)

I am going to pass on the catch can idea for now, especially since it can freeze and I am up north, I am glad this worked.
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013, 11:49:51 PM »

Pics?
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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2013, 02:52:54 PM »

pics of the modification or dipstick?  I have dipstick pictured but i dont think i took pictures of the modification but i can download pics either way. 
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2013, 07:31:19 PM »

pics of the modification or dipstick?  I have dipstick pictured but i dont think i took pictures of the modification but i can download pics either way. 

Modification.
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« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2013, 10:31:03 AM »

ok, i see that the links in CTS are broken...i looked and i did not take pictures of the modification.  I did follow the instructions.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-srx-first-generation-forum-2004/264073-free-fast-oil-consumption-mod-fix.html
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alacran
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« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2013, 10:44:40 AM »

Quote
Here is what you need to do:

Remove the 90* black plastic fitting from the barb on the rear top of the passenger side valve cover:




Then with a pliers or vice brips, twist it s=both ways to release the bond and pull straight up removing it:


Then take a 7/64" drill bit and drill both the top hole and the tiny bottom holes. The entire engine is expected to be able to evacuate through these and they ALL clog over time:








Then clean and push firmly back into place.

Now you have done 1/2 of whats needed. Then you need a good functioning catchcan installed between this barb and the intake manifold vacuum side (RX for 100% oil trapped, Elite of AMW or Saiku Micchi for 90% plus trapped, Moroso or any other to trap 40-60% of the oil....you want to trap ALL the oil).

Then your set.

Here are the pictures for reference.

More pictures are located here
http://srxturnsignals.shutterfly.com/timingchain/703

I think i used 7/64" on two holes only.  Basically, the bottom of the orifice has larger opening then the outlet.

after...
Top

and bottom


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alacran
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2013, 12:21:31 PM »

UPDATE:  I hope this is the correct thread.  I just did an oil change this weekend, 5,500 miles, no oil added, and the oil level was at the second hole on the dipstick.

Noticeable difference in oil consumption concerns.  Before the modification i had to add oil into the engine to keep at that level.  

This is the second oil change with successful results, one in the winter earlier this year and now one summer.  Also drained out about 5 Qts of oil.

EDIT:  I added "after" pictures to previous post
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2013, 04:46:00 PM »

so, which catch can did you end up using?  Also, what year do you have?
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