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Author Topic: Air conditioning problem with 2009 Traverse  (Read 49038 times)
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corladon
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 11:29:41 AM »

The second dealer found that the freon was 2/3 low and only had 1/3 the charge.  No idea how the first dealer missed that, especially since they had it for two days and I specifically asked several times if it was fully charged.

The second dealer said the 2008+ came from the factory with dye in the freon and they couldn't find a leak.  No idea how a closed loop system can lose 2/3 of the freon and not show a leak somewhere.

They refilled it with freon with dye and sent us home to drive it and see how it does.  I'm concerned that it might ba a slow leak and be next summer before we notice it again which would be well past the warranty as we have almost 35K miles on the car now.

Haven't had a chance to check the front and rear cooling temps yet, but will get a chance to this weekend.
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 02:49:18 PM »

Hi Michelle,

WOW, I wish I had had an outlet like this to voice concerns when all the issues with my 2004 GMC Sierra (hence the username) first started it would have saved a lot of time and phone calls. As for your question. The dealer was able to duplicate the issue with the A/C but only the service writer. By the time the tech had the vehicle it was blowing perfect, just like NCCHICK's. One minute its perfect the next its not. It is irritating that one dealer employee documents the issue, without me going into great detail in my description to him. And the tech canít find a problem. This is my wifeís car so I am only privy to its issues on the weekends or the occasional meal out. I understand the dealerís position on this as GM will not pay them to go on a witch hunt. My guess is that this isnít the first one theyíve seen but as there are no codes they canít go trying to find the problem. So they leave it to the GM engineers to find. My issue is we are at 33k and about to go out of the part of the warranty that covers this and they canít track down the issue. The steering gear is an issue with these cars and ours has already been replaced but GM is working on the permanent fix so we have deal with a squeaky steering wheel until they figure it out. Itís just like the intermediate steering shaft on my sierra. It was an issue from the first year of that body style (1999) and the fix was just released in '08, thatís 9 years and two body styles. I had like 4 shafts put in and countless "grease and replace" fixes. Or the beam shake, this has been an issue since the 1988 extended cabs were released, the hydraulic body mount fix was just released for the 2011 models. I've had a Ď95 and this Ď04 that have it and just dealt with it as a truck thing. Now that there is a fix the dealer wonít fix it as it is out of warranty and not considered a defect, just bad design. Or the main problem with my Ď04 a transmission that has NEVER worked right, it won't die or anything like that just shifts like crap. I have something like 84 carfax reports on that truck all related to the trans. GM finally let the dealer put in a trans that fixed the issue for 5 months. When the issue came back I was exhausted and just learned to ignore it. Interesting thing is Inside Lines own long term tester (an '07) with the same 4L80E trans but a completely new designed truck had the exact same issue with a crappy 1-2 shift that my old '04 has, so again an issue that made its way to two completely different vehicles. I realize this is a lot of info and not all about the vehicle in question. But I see the cycle I started with my sierra over 7 years ago starting again with this Traverse. Its starts with reassurance and ends with service managers cussing you out on the service drive telling you that you are "hyper critical and should just ignore it".  I was actually told that verbatim. Despite all of that I will always buy GM.
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 05:05:55 PM »

Dear corladon,

Thank you for the update of your visit to the second dealership.  I am glad that they were able to provide you with some information about your situation.

I look forward to reading the temps of your vehicle since your Freon has been refilled.

I hope that you have a great weekend planned.

Sincerely,
Michelle, Chevrolet Customer Service
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gig229
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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2011, 06:09:13 AM »

Tell your dealer to use an electronic leak detector inside the car to determine if the evaporator is leaking.  My 09 Enclave had a leaking evaporator, and it took several visits to get this sorted out.  My dealership had replaced several evaporators right after mine on Acadias and Enclaves...seems some cheap parts may have been used, gotta love those cost accountants!
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« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2011, 01:06:01 PM »

corladon,
I am sorry to hear you are having problems with your Traverse however I am glad I came across this thread.  I could have written this thread almost identical to the problem we are experiencing with our 09 Traverse. To say I am "frustrated" would be an understatement.  We are retired and haved owned GM vehicles our entire life of driving, currently owning 4 (09 Traverse, 01 Grand Am, 03 Corvette, 67 Corvette).  We bought a 2009 Traverse new in February 09.  We bought the Traverse because we have 4 granddaughters and needed a vehicle to take them all with us.  Living in the country ANYWHERE we go (bread, milk, etc) we have at least a 20 mile roundtrip.  Since February 09 to present we have put 55,500 miles on the Traverse mainly highway miles.  2 days ago as we were heading down to pick up the girls for the week-end after about 90 miles on the interstate the front fan, no matter which speed it was on, quit working.  The vents were still cool to the touch but no fan. The fan symbol was on but nothing coming out.  I pulled over to check fuses and after about 20-25 minutes with engine off the fan started working again.  When it did there was a strange noise coming from directly in front of driver.  It lasted for a few minutes then stopped.  Just like in your case the rear A/C did not seem as cold as the front. The town my son lives in does not have GM dealer so I took it to a reputable shop (over 30 years) to check it out.  After the check-up the tech told me the evaporator was leaking.  He said the reason the fan would quit working was because the evaporator would freeze up.   He said it was a labor intense job because they would have to remove the dash, and it would cost over a $1000.  Since we were babysitting the grandkids for only 4 days we had made several plans to head into St. Louis for some sightseeing.  This was all put on hold because of the AC problem as it is in the 90's this week-end.  Back to the tech, he advised me that even though the car had 55,000 miles there is NO WAY the evaporator should need replaced this soon.  I TOTALLY AGREE!! It is not like the evaporator is out in the elements, it is hidden under the dash.  He said I should go back to my dealer and speak with GM.   I just returned from his shop about an hour ago.  On the way back to my son's I called the dealer (Jackson's Chevrolet in Sullivan, Il) and spoke with the service manager and salesman I bought the car from.  I have bought other cars thru them over the years and have a good relationship with them. The service manager said he was sorry but there was nothing he could do to approve getting it fixed, I would have to go thru GM.  He gave me the number to call GM Customer Service to start a claim.  I have an appointment Monday to have the dealer check it out.


 
   Sorry for the late reply, RL got in the way.

   NCCHICK, thanks for the tip but I always use the recirculation option.  Not only does it cool the car faster but it also helps eliminate outside smells from getting in the car.  One of my pet peeves with the Traverse is that the recirculation button seems to reset every time we turn the car off and back on.  It always defaults to the off position.  The manual confirms this behavior:
“Press to turn the recirculation mode on or off.  An indicator light comes on when recirculation is on. When the engine is turned off, the recirculation mode automatically turns off and must be re-selected when the engine is turned on again.”

   I called a different Chevy dealer and scheduled an appointment to drop the car off tonight.  Hopefully they will be able to find the problem (if one exists).

   To recap the three problems I’m having the A/C system:

1.   The original problem in the first post where the A/C system basically shutoff.  I haven't had that problem again but I’ve never experienced that kind of behavior with any of the cars I’ve owned or been in.
2.   The rear A/C temperature seems to be 15 – 20 degrees warmer that the front.  The second Chevy dealer I talked to today says that might be expected behavior as the air channels that carry the air from the front to back run near the outside of the car and take a while to cool down.  However, I’ve noticed that the temp difference is still there after 1+ hours of freeway driving.
3.   The A/C system as a whole doesn’t seem to be cold enough.  I in other cars I’ve owned the A/C is “biting” cold but the Traverse is not.  The dealer said “the Traverse should be blowing ice cubes” but that doesn’t describe my car.

I’ll update the post in a couple of days once I hear from the dealer.

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shooter
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« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2011, 01:21:07 PM »

corladon, did the second dealer check the evaporator?  The tech that just checked mine out said many shops do not check that.  He said many times they can not find the leaking freaon from that area because it is mixed with the condensation.  Also someone mentioned there is packing or foam in that area that could be soaking it up.  I don't know this for a fact just what I heard. 

Michelle,
I was coming back to my son's from the shop and planned on contatcing GM but thought I would check online to see if anyone else experiences this problem.  Being a GM representative could you give me some guideance as to who to contact?  I like most others hate to have to explain a problem to 4-5 different reps getting to the correct party. Thank you.  If you would rather answer directly my email is: shooter1951@frontier.com

The second dealer found that the freon was 2/3 low and only had 1/3 the charge.  No idea how the first dealer missed that, especially since they had it for two days and I specifically asked several times if it was fully charged.

The second dealer said the 2008+ came from the factory with dye in the freon and they couldn't find a leak.  No idea how a closed loop system can lose 2/3 of the freon and not show a leak somewhere.

They refilled it with freon with dye and sent us home to drive it and see how it does.  I'm concerned that it might ba a slow leak and be next summer before we notice it again which would be well past the warranty as we have almost 35K miles on the car now.

Haven't had a chance to check the front and rear cooling temps yet, but will get a chance to this weekend.

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gig229
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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2011, 02:28:27 PM »

Shooter, it's not only the evaporator that's troublesome, it's the HVAC case as well.  They warp with the heat from the heater, and that causes the actuators (which move the blend doors) to have problems.  My dealer showed me the warped HVAC case where one blend door wouldn't go all the way back.  On my 09 Enclave they first replaced the actuator, HVAC control module, and reprogrammed it, but the same problem kept coming back.  Once they replaced the HVAC case everything has worked properly so far (knock on wood).  When I did a little research online, I found different part numbers for the 2008, 2009, and 2010 HVAC cases, which indicates a possible redesign.  In addition, there's a TSB on this HVAC case problem too.

If the dealer is going to replace the front evaporator, I would have them check/replace the HVAC case too since this is a HUGE job and you wouldn't want them to have to do it twice.  I know - they took out my dashboard twice already to fix the evaporator and HVAC case, and I have less than 16,000 miles!
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shooter
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« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2011, 04:55:36 PM »

gig229,
Thank you for your response.  Since this just happened I haven't had a chance to research it too much but plan to.  The fact of changing HVAC cases for 3 years in a row is puzzling.  I have not searched for that bulletin yet, do you have any further info on it?  It is frustrating anytime you have car problems, more so now for us.  Our granddaughters age 2, 7, 10 and 12 along my wife and I have been looking forward to having some adventures here in St. Louis and now we are trapped with a vehicle with no A/C and 90 plus degree heat these 4 days.  And I know we are going to be faced with a HUGE argument with GM over this.  The reason we trade cars every few years is so we have something DEPENDABLE!!  We have had so many GM vehicles in the 40 plus years of driving I can't remember them all.  Plus ones we bought for our 2 sons.  Just since 1990 we've had a 89 Grand Prix, 91 Lumina, 92 S10, 94 Silverado, 96 Jimmy, 2000 GMC Sierra 4x4, 90 Corvette, 91 Corvette, 03 Corvette, 05 Avalanche,  and the 09 Traverse!!  You would expect more from a $40,000 vehicle!!

Someone mnentioned early on they didn't think their Traverse A/C was as cold as others they have had when it was new and I agree.  With some of the suggestions about adjustments you have to make for it to run right, why is that?  Are they putting out a less than adaquate product that you have to compensate for? 
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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2011, 03:58:21 AM »

Shooter see my post here: http://www.traverseforum.com/index.php?topic=1988.0.  I explain some of the AC issues.  I don't have the TSB # for the HVAC case; my service adviser told me about this.  I did some research on the part numbers, and here's where I found different part numbers for 2007-2008, 2009, and 2010-11 for the automatic temperature control HVAC air distributor case:

2007-2008 Acadia, Outlook
----------------------------------------
20917744 - Manual temperature control
25953596 - Automatic temperature control

2009 Enclave, Acadia, Traverse, Outlook
----------------------------------------
20917744 - Manual temperature control
20826180 - Automatic temperature control

2010-2011 Enclave, Acadia, Traverse, Outlook
----------------------------------------
20917744 - Manual Temperature Control
20917742 - Automatic temperature control

As you'll see, there's several different part numbers for the automatic temperature control HVAC air distribution case, which most likely indicates a part redesign.  From what I understand, since a TSB is out for the HVAC case warpage, not all will experience this.  It may be a bad batch of parts from a specific supplier.




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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2011, 08:38:01 PM »

I am having the exact same problem with my 09 traverse.  The ac comes and goes...  Mostly doesn't work.  I am 8000 miles out of warranty and the dealer wants the 120 diagnosis fee to check out.  I put gauges on it and the pressures are fine.  The compressor kicks on fine.  Is there a way to manually check the codes on the hvac control panel?  Mine is an ltz with auto temp control.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
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« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2011, 09:29:13 PM »

I took mine to the dealer today and they checked but could not find the leak.  I told them  the shop in Edwardsville said the evaporator was leaking however the tech at the dealer couldn't find it.  They recharged it and charged me $118. instead of the original $157.   They said to keep an eye on it.  With temps forecasted to be plus 90 all week that shouldn't be a problem.   I called the shop in Edwardsville when I got home to thank them again and let them know what was going on.  The shop owner said about 2 hours after I left their shop another customer brought a 2009 Acadia in with the exact same problem.  
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« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2011, 03:04:13 AM »

Engineereric remove the two black panels under the dashboard, and look underneath with a flashlight.  On the passenger side closest to the center console you will see 2 actuators for the vent mode and passenger temperature.  On the passenger side, above and in back of the glovebox you will see the recirc air actuator.  On the driver side is the driver temperature actuator.  When you change the specific ac control, you should see the actuators move.  If they don't, you either have a problem with the actuator, wiring, or blend door.  Really easy to do.  Your dealer can read the error codes on the ac module as well.
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corladon
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« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2011, 11:47:56 AM »

After driving the car for 30 minutes to let the A/C get going, I took an analog oven temperature gauge and put it in one of the front A/C vents and checked the temp.  I was running in the 48 degree range.  Iím not sure if thatís a ďgoodĒ temp or not for a 2009 Traverse.
It feels better but still maybe not quite as cold as some of the other cars Iíve driven.  We only have 700 or so miles left on the warranty.  Iím going to try and get the second dealer to look at the A/C system one more time before the warranty expires.

I will say that the A/C system in the Traverse is very different from the other cars Iíve owned:

1.   The fan noise when itís on high is very loud, to the point of making it difficult to have a conversation at times.
2.   It still doesnít seem to have the ďbitingĒ cold of other cars.
3.   Apparently Chevy knows how best to set the recirculation button as it always defaults to the off position.
4.   The compressor makes this ďsighingĒ kind of sound as it comes on and off.  Other cars Iíve owned make a similar sound but the Traverse is much louder.
5.   The rear A/C is very loud.  This is the first car Iíve owned with rear A/C so I donít have anything to compare it against, but with the rear A/C and the front A/C both on high itís very difficult to have a conversation in the car.
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2011, 12:04:42 PM »

1.   The fan noise when itís on high is very loud, to the point of making it difficult to have a conversation at times.
3.   Apparently Chevy knows how best to set the recirculation button as it always defaults to the off position.
5.   The rear A/C is very loud.  This is the first car Iíve owned with rear A/C so I donít have anything to compare it against, but with the rear A/C and the front A/C both on high itís very difficult to have a conversation in the car.

1-- its louder when its on recirculate vs air from the outside.--- could that be it?
3-- probably because many people turned on recirculate- thinking its only inside air--- but they had no idea that the compressor was running... so they default to off-- to make sure compressor is off and does not use more gas than needed- (just the other day my dad- who now drives my ex 03 Traiblazer told me- that when he uses recirculate air is just as cool as if AC were on-- but AC light is OFF.... I had to explain how it works).
5-- if you have the AC on recirculate- and turn on the rear AC-- the vehicle SUCKS in air from the cargo area on the right. (opposite side of where the jack storage is) and yes it will make noise.
To try to quiet down- select a bi-level- instead of all the air coming from the vents that blow at your face- make it so that it also blows at your feet- that will help quiet down... (and make sure your vents are fully opened.... partially closed vents will make more noise (turn the know that closes the vent).
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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2011, 02:09:29 PM »


corladon,
On our 09 Traverse what you described is almost identical to ours.  I assume every 09 Traverse is set up the same in Auto mode:  When you turn the a/c on in AUTO mode it is on the highest fan speed possible and blowing only from the face vents.  I usually don't use this mode except when it is extremely (like this week), we usually turn the AC on in the mode to blow both upper and power vents.  last week I bought a themometer to stick in the vents to check the temp, after ours was recharged 2 days ago it is in the 48-50 range when on AUTO mode.  1, 2, 4 and 5 of your post is identical to our Traverse, but that may or may not mean both of ours are "normal" since we are both having problems. 

My situation now is that
1. I had it recharged 2 days ago at the dealer
2. They could not find a leak but did say they would contact GM in my behalf if it leaked out again.
3. Charged me $118 instead of the $157 original bill
4.  My wallet can not afford a $100 hit per recharge if it leaks out again.
5.  The tech at dealer said they could not "get to" the evaporator to see if it was leaking.  The service manager said they could possible stick a scope or similar device up drain to see if there is a leak but didn't think any of the techs would want to chance ruining their scope.

I called the shop in Edwardsville after I got home from dealer to see how they knew it was the evaporator and he said they could see the dye at the drain tube.  I am going over to my shop after lunch and put it on the lift to see if I can find it.  I will post if i find anything.  Good luck

TheI
After driving the car for 30 minutes to let the A/C get going, I took an analog oven temperature gauge and put it in one of the front A/C vents and checked the temp.  I was running in the 48 degree range.  Iím not sure if thatís a ďgoodĒ temp or not for a 2009 Traverse.
It feels better but still maybe not quite as cold as some of the other cars Iíve driven.  We only have 700 or so miles left on the warranty.  Iím going to try and get the second dealer to look at the A/C system one more time before the warranty expires.

I will say that the A/C system in the Traverse is very different from the other cars Iíve owned:

1.   The fan noise when itís on high is very loud, to the point of making it difficult to have a conversation at times.
2.   It still doesnít seem to have the ďbitingĒ cold of other cars.
3.   Apparently Chevy knows how best to set the recirculation button as it always defaults to the off position.
4.   The compressor makes this ďsighingĒ kind of sound as it comes on and off.  Other cars Iíve owned make a similar sound but the Traverse is much louder.
5.   The rear A/C is very loud.  This is the first car Iíve owned with rear A/C so I donít have anything to compare it against, but with the rear A/C and the front A/C both on high itís very difficult to have a conversation in the car.

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« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2011, 07:57:03 AM »

Speaking of air conditioning, yesterday was a "true test" of how well it works. Here in Rochester NY we set a record of 98 degrees. I stuck a thermometer in the main vent, with the outside air temperature indicating 102, the vent was putting out about 48 degrees, cooling the outside air, not in recirculation. Thought that was pretty good for a 2 1/2 year car.

Another issue, I think has been brought up before, but not resolved, when I run the compressor, and then shut it off, I get a rotten odor after the compressor is shut off for about 10 - 15 minutes, then it goes away. This happens each time I use the AC, and only when I shut off the compressor. My old Chevy Venture had the same issue, and I finally learned to live with it. Do we have a cabin filter in the 2009 Traverses, that I can change? Haven't had a chance to look around or in the manual. Any ideas would be appreciated, other than to put air fresheners in the vents.......
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« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2011, 08:43:24 AM »

Another issue, I think has been brought up before, but not resolved, when I run the compressor, and then shut it off, I get a rotten odor after the compressor is shut off for about 10 - 15 minutes, then it goes away. This happens each time I use the AC, and only when I shut off the compressor. My old Chevy Venture had the same issue, and I finally learned to live with it. Do we have a cabin filter in the 2009 Traverses, that I can change? Haven't had a chance to look around or in the manual. Any ideas would be appreciated, other than to put air fresheners in the vents.......

I don't believe most Traverse's have the cabin air filter, but you can still get that rotten smell without the cabin filter. The cause is most likely leaves and dirt that have fallen down into the cowling, where outsite air is pulled into the blower motor. This is the area just infront of, or below the windshield. You need to take that cover off (may have to remove the wiper arms to do so) and get all of the debris out of there. This debris build up can also cause a wet floor board if it is allowed to build up to much, and clog the drain.

Do you park your Traverse outside quite a bit? This will allow the leaves to get into the cowling much easier.
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« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2011, 11:21:23 AM »

Ah! Thanks Greg, will give it a try, and clean it out, then report if I see anything smelly in there. I park the Traverse in the garage at night, but it' s outside most of the time. Also, has been in the woods for several days at a time on numerous times on Boy Scout campouts.   Cool
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« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2011, 02:45:30 PM »

to try to diminish that smell-
every so often run the fan on HIGH- and FULL HEAT.
let that heat dry out any mold that may be growing in there.... since its nice and humid.
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« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 10:20:44 PM »

I purchased a 2009 fwd Traverse summer of 2012 with 70,000 miles. It has rear ac digital controls on back of center council and digital auto controls up front. We had a hotter than average summer and when we bought it both the front and rear ac worked great. after about a month we figured out from someone riding in the rear that the rear vents were just blowing warm air while the front vents were ice cold. Ive checked the controls over and over and make sure its on recirculate but it wont change the rear temp.I do automotive work and I know the freon amount is correct, in fact it continued working this way the rest of the summer. Then twice on a very hot day while driving we could notice that the front vents were blowing out a fog, just like dry ice. Just a slight amount it doesnt effect seeing and there is no smell, it looks just like a small amount of dry ice. Hopefully someone has an answer. We like the Traverse but may be forced to get rid of it
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